View Full Version : Hurricane alley
And the hits just keep on coming. TS Emily is churning in the @lantic towards the caribbean, with yet another wave just off Africa that's expected to become Franklin w/in the next couple of days. 5 named storms by mid-July is simply incredible. Never have there been more than 3 named storms in July in 154 years of record keeping. Now we have 5 and a possible 6th on the way by the end of the week. Amazing! :eek:
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/
-Kevin
Welcome to global warming.
Sean O'Gorman
07-12-05, 06:30 PM
Makes me glad I'm staying in Cleveland for the time being. 90 degrees and sunny, every day. The weather here the past two years before that was just miserable.
Insomniac
07-12-05, 07:50 PM
Welcome to global warming.
One year it's global warming, the next year temperatures are down. El nino, la nina. I don't think anyone knows.
indyfan31
07-12-05, 08:03 PM
Welcome to global warming.
What caused hurricanes before the SUV got here?
JLMannin
07-12-05, 09:30 PM
Welcome to global warming.
NEWSFLASH!!!! This planet has been in global warming since the peak of the last ice age 20 millenia or more ago. Last I checked, the glaciers receded not because the freezing point of water suddenly dropped, but that the global temperature warmed up. We are not yet at the middle of the 100,000 year cycle between ice ages, so expect global warming for twns of millenia. 50,000 years from now, it will all be about global cooling and what mankind should do to stop or slow it.
Lizzerd
07-13-05, 12:07 AM
global warming = junk science.
It's a myth, folks. Climatic changes have been going on ever since the first primordial critters found dirt.
Looks like this one is talking a more southwestern track.
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT05/refresh/AL0505W5_sm2+gif/090602W_sm.gif
We are supposed to be in the middle of a 40 year hurricane cycle. I agree with those that think global warming doesn't have anything to do with it.
TKGAngel
07-13-05, 12:25 PM
Makes me glad I'm staying in Cleveland for the time being. 90 degrees and sunny, every day. The weather here the past two years before that was just miserable.
Its been the same way here at the other end of the Lake. I'm not thrilled with the 90+ degree heat, since my house is AC-less, but I know in 3 months there might be snow, so I'm making the best of it.
Its weather reports about the hurricanes that make me appreciate snow.
Emily reaches 155mph @ 2pm ET. :eek: Thankfully she's south of Jamaica and the Caymans. Current forecast track takes her through the Yucatan and into Mexico just south of Tejas. Hopefully she stays on this track.
-Kevin
Personally, I think that all the hurricanes are because God is pissed at us. Not sure why they keep hitting Florida though.
devilmaster
07-16-05, 04:36 PM
Personally, I think that all the hurricanes are because God is pissed at us. Not sure why they keep hitting Florida though.
God hates old people?
Personally, I think that all the hurricanes are because God is pissed at us. Not sure why they keep hitting Florida though.
I believe I saw a political explanation for that somewhere on the innernets.... ;)
BTW, it ain't just the US or the @lantic. Here's a piece I found linked to on FARK about the unusual wx Japan is seeing as well.
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/news/20050716p2g00m0dm005000c.html
I know that there was @ least one super typhoon headed towards China/Japan recently.
-Kevin
devilmaster
07-16-05, 05:16 PM
and to be fair, if you think God hates Florida, then he has a big time hard-on hate for places like Jamaica and Cuba and every other gulf island....
They have been hit waaaay worse
God's just reminding all the idiots who built a $$$$$ house or condo on a sand dune that a beach, and the sand the house or condo is built on, is always in a state of movement. :)
God's just reminding all the idiots who built a $$$$$ house or condo on a sand dune that a beach, and the sand the house or condo is built on, is always in a state of movement. :)What's that ritzy neighborhood near Norfolk that has all of the mansions built on the island that was created by a hurricane?
fourrunner
07-18-05, 04:42 PM
Christ ... You can't talk about a Friggin Hurricane with out bringing Low Life, gutter dwelling Politics into the equation ! :rolleyes:;)
So in its infinite wisdom, NOAA, following the no **** sherlock maxim, has increased the number of storms forecasted for this season:
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2484.htm
In the meantime, storms #8 (now Harvey) and #9 (soon to be named Irene) have formed. Oy vey! Oh, and they only have 12 more names on the list for this season after Irene. :eek:
-Kevin
Here we go again...several models are now forecasting Katrina to reach cat 5 strength before landfall Monday PM. And the current forecast track in the worst possible scenario with New Orleans in the path. Folks, that ain't good. :( Thoughts & prayers for folks along the northern gulf coast.
-Kevin
B3RACER1a
08-27-05, 06:28 PM
Yeah, its not looking good for anywhere around New Orleans. Water temps are as high as 92 degrees and it doesnt look like there are any weather systems to help break the storm up any. :eek:
I guess they won't have to hose the vomit off Bourbon Street early Monday morning.
This thing is just sick. 175mph earlier today, down to 160mph as of 8pm EDT update. I guess the good news is that it doesn't appear that NO will be in the NE quadrant when she makes landfall. Small consolation, I guess. :(
-Kevin
Chitowncartfreak
08-28-05, 09:56 PM
The potential destruction of this thing is unbelievable. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone in that part of the country. Let's hope for a miracle.
Yikes, listening to CNN on XM on the way to work this morning. They are reporting the roof of the Superdome is starting to come off. With 10000 people inside. :(
god really does hate the Deep South...
every year, one flies over FL, then cuts north, boom, right up their gut...
I'm wondering why there's such a large amount of people they couldn't evacuate
Cowherd called this event the weather guys' super bowl. :laugh:
I'm absolutely farking amazed @ the media who are in the eye of the storm. Farking ridiculous. NBC has like their top 3 or 4 anchors and reporters down there, and some yahoo reporting from Biloxi talking about the metal sheeting coming off a building next door. How long before one of these yahoos bites it while on the air? :shakehead
-Kevin
fourrunner
08-29-05, 03:35 PM
god really does hate the Deep South...
every year, one flies over FL, then cuts north, boom, right up their gut...
I'm wondering why there's such a large amount of people they couldn't evacuate
From what I heard on the Reports, Many people who went to "last resort" protection such as the Super Dome were people with out Cars, or with enough money to pay for someone to take them out ... The poor usually gets the s***** end of the stick in these deals
I heard one guy who stayed because he wanted to ride it out ... then called for help as the water rose and he had to chop through his roof ...
Some people actually need the assistance ... others are just "dingbats" !
Chitowncartfreak
08-30-05, 12:08 AM
Terrible news - AP reporting at least 50 deaths in Harrison county, Mississippi. :(
Gulfport and Biloxi are flattened in many areas. Storm surge approaching 28' in some places! Reports of bodies floating in New Orleans and the French Qtr, previously dry last night is filling with water. This is a bad one I fear and we've just started to see the beginning of the deaths. :(
JLMannin
08-30-05, 12:42 PM
People who had the opportunity and means to leave but stayed put "because it's only a category 4" should be billed for their helicopter roof-top rescues.
Yesterday, "everyone" breathed a sigh of relief, thinking that it sure could have been worse, they got off lucky, etc.
Not so good today. :(
From late last night, click on the mayor's update. It's about 20 mins long. Towards the end he makes the reporters speechless.
http://www.wwltv.com/
oddlycalm
08-30-05, 02:21 PM
Yesterday, "everyone" breathed a sigh of relief, thinking that it sure could have been worse, they got off lucky, etc.
Not so good today. :( Yeah, it's a whole lot worse that anyone's worst nightmare, and I'm not sure that anyone even knows how bad Gulfport is yet. The levee failing in New Orleans was a major piece of bad luck and will raise the final bill for cleanup and repair/replacement by a whole lot.
oc
Quite frankly, this is about what I anticipated...although I thought the French Quarter would be worse off than it is. The term catastrophic was not used lightly when describing Katrina before or after landfall. Godspeed to all that are affected in NO, MS, and elsewhere. Still waiting for word from members of my wife's family that live a bit west of NO proper. :(
-Kevin
Quote from WWL TV website:
Jeff Parish President. Residents will probably be allowed back in town in a week, with identification only, but only to get essentials and clothing. You will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month.
:saywhat: I can't imagine. :(
BTW that TV website is steaming live video.
BTW that TV website is steaming live video.Lady from FEMA (I think) said during a press conf. that she had flown over Indonesia after the tsunami and what she saw in New Orleans was just as bad. "Things that were there before are not anymore." :(
I think the two women in the press conference are the governor and one of the senators.
I heard a report on Fox (I think) while I was out at lunch. They said that an area south of New Orleans had been 'reclaimed' by the Mississippi.
Looters suck. :shakeheadLooters are good target practice. :flame:
Looters suck. :shakehead
Send out the judge, jury & executioner vigilante squads to take care of that problem. :mad:
and before y'all get yer undies in a twist....j/k....kinda.
-Kevin
I don't have any problem with people taking food and water out of grocery stores. And if someone is smart enough to float a Lexus, technically isn't that salvage? :p
Michaelhatesfans
08-30-05, 06:16 PM
...if someone is smart enough to float a Lexus, technically isn't that salvage? :p
Ok, I got a guilty chuckle out of that one....
I'm watching the video of looters @ a Wal*Mart in 'bama on MSNBC....it just freaking disgusts me beyond belief. :flame: :flame:
-Kevin
OK, I amend my earlier statement....this is like Galveston in 1909, but on a MUCH wider scale. Far beyond what I could ever imagine. I am just sick beyond belief. :cry: :cry: :cry:
-Kevin
Chitowncartfreak
08-30-05, 10:41 PM
OK, I amend my earlier statement....this is like Galveston in 1909, but on a MUCH wider scale. Far beyond what I could ever imagine. I am just sick beyond belief. :cry: :cry: :cry:
-Kevin
I'm in total disbelief myself. As disgusting as the situation looks on tv, I can't imagine what it would be like to live through something like this. My thoughts are with those who are involved and with those who have family and friends who are involved - terribly sad situation.
B3RACER1a
08-30-05, 10:47 PM
Hey, if they are looting for food or things needed, let em do it. Its not like anyone is there for them to give thier money to, and you cant go days without food or water in 95 degree heat and high humidity. It is a VERY desperate situation.
Food water and other basic necessities are one thing. We're talking about the guy I saw hauling a microwave out of a store. WTF is he going to do with it? There won't be any electricity for weeks. I also saw a couple guys both carrying armloads of Saints jerseys out of a sporting goods store. Are they planning on playing a little football in order to survive?
Food water and other basic necessities are one thing. We're talking about the guy I saw hauling a microwave out of a store. WTF is he going to do with it? There won't be any electricity for weeks. I also saw a couple guys both carrying armloads of Saints jerseys out of a sporting goods store. Are they planning on playing a little football in order to survive?
Amen. I saw a bunch of folks in NO and AL with arms full of clothes, or pushing shopping carts. WTF? :mad:
-Kevin
indyfan31
08-31-05, 12:52 AM
Hey, if they are looting for food or things needed, let em do it. Its not like anyone is there for them to give thier money to, and you cant go days without food or water in 95 degree heat and high humidity. It is a VERY desperate situation.
You're being very noble with someone else's property. If the situation was the same but the looters broke into YOUR house, raided your fridge and stole your clothes, would you feel the same way?
B3RACER1a
08-31-05, 01:43 AM
You're being very noble with someone else's property. If the situation was the same but the looters broke into YOUR house, raided your fridge and stole your clothes, would you feel the same way?
First off, I sure would not have stayed. If I owned a house there, it would be under water and torn up like everyone elses. My cloths and my spoiling food would be the least of my concerns. :rolleyes:
Let them have it. My stuff wouldnt be doing me any good, so someone else can put the stuff to use. I would have been fortunate enough to not be there, others might not have had that option or made the mistake to stay.
Food water and other basic necessities are one thing. We're talking about the guy I saw hauling a microwave out of a store. WTF is he going to do with it? There won't be any electricity for weeks. I also saw a couple guys both carrying armloads of Saints jerseys out of a sporting goods store. Are they planning on playing a little football in order to survive?
lol
Amen. I saw a bunch of folks in NO and AL with arms full of clothes, or pushing shopping carts. WTF? :mad:
-Kevin
School shopping. :laugh:
You're being very noble with someone else's property. If the situation was the same but the looters broke into YOUR house, raided your fridge and stole your clothes, would you feel the same way?As long as they only took food and clothes and I wasn't home to give it to them, I might be able to deal with it. If they took my tv, computer, vcr and stuff like that I'd be hot! I'd probably want them executed. But I'm extreme that way.
Got this link from another website I visit. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bgoodsel/post911/2004/09/ivan-may-be-heading-for-new-orleans.htm
Michaelhatesfans
08-31-05, 03:15 AM
I'm just getting caught up now... Mrs. MHF and I spent a lot of time in Thailand over the years, and she still can't take some of the photos and video from the tsunami last December, so she's asked me to be discreet while following the news right now.
She's off to bed now, and I'm just sitting here wishing that I hadn't turned on the news. The water is still rising, logistical lines have been obliterated, the flood waters are coated with oil film and waste, no electrical power, and people are getting thirsty, tired, hungry, and scared. The authorities don't look very confident of fixing the levvies anytime soon, either. This is going to get worse.
:(
oddlycalm
08-31-05, 07:42 AM
Got this link from another website I visit. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bgoodsel/post911/2004/09/ivan-may-be-heading-for-new-orleans.htm Good link Trish. I recall seeing that segment on NOW back in 2002 and found it very sobering. The fact that it is now coming true is not a happy thing.
WALTER MAESTRI: It's going to look like a massive shipwreck. There's going to be-- there's going to be, you know-- everything that that the water has carried in is going to be there. Alligators, moccasins, you know every kind of rodent that you could think of.
All of your sewage treatment plants are under water. And of course the material is flowing free in the community. Disease becomes a distinct possibility now. The petrochemicals that are produced all up and down the Mississippi River --much of that has floated into this bowl. I mean this has become, you know, the biggest toxic waste dump in the world now
Some folks are saying that New Orleans is finished due to the incredible cost to rebuild it and the threat of a similar occurrence in the future. Now that's a prospect that's hard to wrap your mind around. :(
oc
Tulane's footballers are shacking up down the street from me at SMU for the time being after they had to evacuate from Jackson State...
As for NO, man this sucks :( Maybe the Corps of Engineers will learn a lesson about nature, highly doubtful though, they'll just keep channelizing everything they can like a buncha tools...
If the Mississippi is still flowing through the NO area, they'll try to rebuild, it's what people do, find water, build a port, the breadbasket of america sails through there every day...
I just can't imagine "New Orleans" being rebuilt. Maybe a city a shade further inland called New Orleans. But i can't see how they'll ever recover what the Mississippi just took back.
Some folks are saying that New Orleans is finished due to the incredible cost to rebuild it and the threat of a similar occurrence in the future. Now that's a prospect that's hard to wrap your mind around.
oc
Maybe not a bad idea. A city built in a bowl surrounded by water. :shakehead
what's worse, Katrina went east, fortunately, so NO only got the equivalent of a Cat 2 hurricane and yet the city fills with water and no one seems to know what to do. :shakehead
It's as though all those meetings to formulate contingency plans for just this scenario over the years took place down on Bourbon street and the meetings turned into drinking parties with beads. I've never seen officials and engineers so clueless.
I've never seen officials and engineers so clueless.
the corps of engineers have always thought they get to play god, that's the problem...
I think they will rebuild. And our tax dollars will be helping. sigh.
They do have to at least replace/fix/whatever the port facilities. I heard this morning that most of our grain exports go through that port. But I think they will also rebuild the area's the sea and river have not reclaimed.
Also, the city has been there for hundreds of years. This isn't the first time it's been flooded out.
story link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/)
Wow, they are going to bus the 25000 people in the Superdome to Houston and put them in the Astrodome.
Official call to evacuate the city of NO. No surprise there.
linky (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050831/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina;_ylt=AmEAEEt0tg0agNv57eYsOQ8DW7o F;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)
story link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/)
Wow, they are going to bus the 25000 people in the Superdome to Houston and put them in the Astrodome.
If they're not back in NO by next year can we count them in the 3 day total for next years race? ;)
Sean O'Gorman
08-31-05, 11:51 AM
If they're not back in NO by next year can we count them in the 3 day total for next years race? ;)
"That's the kind of dishonest, immoral, hate-filled type of thinking that comes from the fans of the Bankrupt Remnant Series, blah blah blah..." :laugh:
If they're not back in NO by next year can we count them in the 3 day total for next years race? ;)
I thought about that too. :laugh: Hope they are race fans.
I just hope they drop off the looters somewhere else. :mad:
indyfan31
08-31-05, 12:08 PM
Meanwhile in other parts of the South, debris blocks a road in Pascagoula, Miss.
http://www.sunherald.com/images/sunherald/sunherald/12515/156633871865.jpg
I can understand the washing machine being tossed around, but a TOILET is bolted to the floor!!! Good God, how do you recover from this?
If you haven't seen it yet, check out the helicopter tour on MSNBC.com. It's the Extreme damage in Mississippi video. Exteremely profound and saddening.
-Kevin
Looting food, water, meds, etc., is perfectly acceptable in this situation. Even clothes, as they are also a survival tool. Looting the liquor store, while a survival tool for some, is not acceptable.
Now, check this out. Whether you are "looting" or "finding" depends on the hue of your skin.
popups suck, I wish snopes would get rid of them (http://msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/78/t/001083.html)
Orginal post was removed from snopes. Why?? Someone else posted the topic again.
I can understand the washing machine being tossed around, but a TOILET is bolted to the floor!!!
So are second stories.
http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_568_images/083005_katrina17.jpg
Good God, how do you recover from this?
Put a blade on a dozer and start pushing it into piles.
It's certainly a perfect time for the states and especially the municipalities to review and change building codes before the massive reconstruction begins. From everything I've seen, most of the coastal towns from Biloxi to NO have been stripped clean. Perhaps rebuilding with an eye on prevention of damage to structures on land less than 30ft above mean sea level is in order. I'm not suggesting trying to modify structures to survive a Katrina type storm, I don't think you could really build something economically feasible to survive a 25+ ft storm surge and 140mph winds, but better survivability for Cat 3 or less storms.
Put a blade on a dozer and start pushing it into piles.
It's certainly a perfect time for the states and especially the municipalities to review and change building codes before the massive reconstruction begins. From everything I've seen, most of the coastal towns from Biloxi to NO have been stripped clean. Perhaps rebuilding with an eye on prevention of damage to structures on land less than 30ft above mean sea level is in order. I'm not suggesting trying to modify structures to survive a Katrina type storm, I don't think you could really build something economically feasible to survive a 25+ ft storm surge and 140mph winds, but better survivability for Cat 3 or less storms.
I thought that in Florida new construction must be cinderblock (or the like) for the first floor. After Andrew (?) hit, you were left with thousands of single-story homes with yards filled with your neighbors' second story's debris.
We had built for us a single story home outside Fort Lauderdale back in about 98. The place was a fortress. All cement block with re-bar and cement poured down through the center of the blocks. With the huricane shutters up I don't think any wind would have damaged it. Storm surge though, I don't think there is any way to build for that.
Here's a read on why Katrina weakened before landfall, and could have been MUCH worse (hard to imagine):
http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/D8CAS7RO0.html
-Kevin
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said close to a million people had been evacuated from the city and surrounding areas before and after Katrina pounded the Gulf Coast on Monday, leaving hundreds feared dead.
But he said "a couple hundred thousand" were still trapped with the lake spilling into the low-lying city after an effort to plug a breach in a major levee failed Tuesday and pumps gave out.
:(
full story (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usweatherneworleans;_ylt=At9NACJ1ofa.1TQK9OCfj0kDW 7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl)
NASA images of NO before and after Katrina:
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/hurricane_2005.html
Also, I dug up the NWS advisory for NO from Sun @ 11am EDT (they didn't mince words warning folks to get out):
Urgent Weather Message from NWS New Orleans
WWUS74 KLIX 281550NPWLIXURGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005
DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED
HURRICANE KATRINAA MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969. MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. ATLEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED.
CONCRETE BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME WALL AND ROOF FAILURE. HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT. AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATEADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...
AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK. POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...
BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEWCROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BEKILLED.AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEARHURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE..
.ARECERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTUREOUTSIDE!LAZ038-040-050-056>070-282100-ASSUMPTION-LIVINGSTON-LOWER JEFFERSON-LOWER LAFOURCHE-LOWER PLAQUEMINES-LOWER ST. BERNARD-LOWER TERREBONNE-ORLEANS-ST. CHARLES-ST. JAMES-ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST-ST. TAMMANY-TANGIPAHOA-UPPER JEFFERSON-UPPER LAFOURCHE-UPPER PLAQUEMINES-UPPER ST. BERNARD-UPPER TERREBONNE-1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005
EDIT: Post total =s my YOB. :gomer:
dando
Champion
Join Date: Jul 2003
: Cbus
Posts: 1,966
;)
-Kevin
Michaelhatesfans
08-31-05, 02:14 PM
Also, the city has been there for hundreds of years. This isn't the first time it's been flooded out.
Yeah, but this is the first time that it's been flooded out and the entire population has been evacuated for months...
I've already seen reports of evacuees enrolling their kids in the local schools wherever it is that they have ended up. You have to ask yourself how many are going to return. The vast majority of people can't go for months without working, and you have to expect that many if not most of them will simply give up and start over somewhere else. Just think of the complications - no access to the money in your bank account, the place where you worked is gone, your home is gone... Those areas all along the Gulf Coast are going to be shadows of thier former selves - socially, culturally, and economically. :(
I'm not saying it makes sense to rebuild, just that IMO they will. It's what we (Americans) do.
Michaelhatesfans
08-31-05, 02:27 PM
I don't know where else to put this, but I've had a Randy Newman song in my head for the past few days. Sorry if it seems out of place here, but I thought that he really captured the spirit of the place in this song...
New Orleans Wins The War
Don't remember much about my baby days,
But I been told
We used to live on Willow near the Garden District
Next to the Sugar Bowl
Momma used to wheel me past an ice cream wagon
One side for White and one side for Colored
I remember trash cans floatin' down Canal Street
It rained every day one summer
Momma used to take me to Audubon Park
Show me the ways of the world
She said, here comes a white boy, there goes a black one,
that one's an octoroon
This little cookie here's a macaroon, that big round thing's
a red balloon
And the paper down here's called the Picayune
And here's a New Orleans tune
In 1948 my Daddy came to the city
Told the people that they'd won the war
Maybe they'd heard it, maybe not
Probably they'd heard it and just forgot
'Cause they built him a platform there in Jackson Square
And the people came to hear him from everywhere
They started to party and they partied some more
'Cause New Orleans had won the war
(We knew we'd do it, we done whipped the Yankees)
Daddy said, I'm gonna get this boy out of this place
Bound to sap his strength
People have fun here, and I think that they should
But nobody from here every come to no good
They're gonna pickle him in brandy and tell him he's saved
Then throw firecrackers 'round his grave
So he took us down to the airport, and flew us back to L.A.
That was the end of my baby days
Blue blue morning, blue blue day
All your bad dreams drift away
It's a blue blue morning, of a blue blue day
Lose those bad dreams
Those gray clouds above you, what you want them around
with you for?
You got someone to love you
Who could ask for more?
It's a blue blue morning, of a blue blue day
All your bad dreams drift away
Michaelhatesfans
08-31-05, 02:29 PM
I'm not saying it makes sense to rebuild, just that IMO they will. It's what we (Americans) do.
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree, it just won't be the same - probably not in my lifetime, anyway.
devilmaster
08-31-05, 02:30 PM
I'm not saying it makes sense to rebuild, just that IMO they will. It's what we (Americans) do.
Not trying to make light of the situation, but I keep thinking to myself that if anyone can clean up quickly after this mess, its NO.... They clean Mardi Gras... ;)
And MHF, its always time for a good Newman song.... one of the best songwriters around, IMO.
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree, it just won't be the same - probably not in my lifetime, anyway.
It depends on which part of New Orleans you mean. I think we'll see the port facilities and and the French Quarter and downtown fixed ASAP. Those are the economic engines for the city. Once jobs start to return people will need places to live. I doubt some of the old neighborhoods will ever be the same though.
I've been to New Orleans many times but just last year for the first time we took a bus tour of the city. Got a chance to experience for the first time some of the long history of the city. I'm really glad we did it while it was possible.
Methanolandbrats
08-31-05, 02:41 PM
Building a major city in a floodplain or below sea level is stupid to begin with and even stupider if it's done twice. No more building on barrier islands either. Would'nt hurt to leave a wetland and barrier island buffer between settlement areas and the sea. Of course people like beachfront property, so they'll build all that **** again so Mother Nature can erase it again. Remember, Mother Nature ALWAYS bats last.
Building a major city in a floodplain or below sea level is stupid to begin with and even stupider if it's done twice. No more building on barrier islands either. Would'nt hurt to leave a wetland and barrier island buffer between settlement areas and the sea. Of course people like beachfront property, so they'll build all that **** again so Mother Nature can erase it again. Remember, Mother Nature ALWAYS bats last.
Simple, jack the insurance rates to reflect the risk. If ya don't have insurance, you can't rebuild, if you drop your insurance and mother nature comes and wipes out your structure it's your loss, not the taxpayers. You get nothing. That should stop a lot of the rebuilding.
cameraman
08-31-05, 03:17 PM
Well the only supplier of flood insurance is the US Federal Government so unless the Feds changes the rules.....
I wonder how many property owners around New Orleans carried flood insurance? I don't recall the rules anymore but when we lived in Florida, we were required to buy flood insurance even though we were many miles from the coast.
I was in the flood of '93 and lost my house. As I recall, Flood insurance was running approximately $300 per year for each $50,000 in value of the house. That price reflected being on the Mississippi 100 year FP, closer in and the prices went up. Many people didn't carry it as they felt it was too expensive. After the flood, the prices tripled at the minimum. Again, anyone considering rebuilding had to meet stricter codes to rebuild along with knowing the costs of the insurance had tripled. Many said forget it as I did, and moved up off the FP.
TKGAngel
08-31-05, 03:45 PM
I don't know where else to put this, but I've had a Randy Newman song in my head for the past few days. Sorry if it seems out of place here, but I thought that he really captured the spirit of the place in this song...
Yours is positive at least. I've had the chorus of The Tragically Hip's New Orleans is Sinking stuck in my head for the past few days. Make it stop!
But seriously, the news coming out of this area just keeps getting worse. Now there's cholera and typhoid fears due to the water/people/sewage mixture. I've never been so thankful that my area has snow in my entire life.
Lizzerd
09-01-05, 12:02 AM
the corps of engineers have always thought they get to play god, that's the problem...
It's the local and state politicos, Ank. Ask anyone in St. Louis. The Army Corp of Engineers doesn't just come in and build a levy. It requires local approval and funding.
My favorite Far Side (use your imagination here) -
The picture is of a young, fat kid pumping water out of a fish bowl. The fish is at the bottom of the bowl, running out of water and looking desperate. Two fatties in horn-rimmed glasses are watching.
The caption (one lady to another), "When Lionel grows up, he wants to join the Army Corps of Engineers."
Superdome Evacuation Halted Amid Gunfire
NEW ORLEANS (AP) _ The evacuation of the Superdome was suspended Thursday after shots were fired at a military helicopter, an ambulance official overseeing the operation said. No immediate injuries were reported. "We have suspended operations until they gain control of the Superdome," said Richard Zeuschlag, head of Acadian Ambulance, which was handling the evacuation of sick and injured people from the Superdome. :shakehead
It's the local and state politicos, Ank. Ask anyone in St. Louis. The Army Corp of Engineers doesn't just come in and build a levy. It requires local approval and funding.
that too, but the local politicos weren't the ones who used b.s. economics to channelize the upper missouri and dam virtually every river in the country, bureau of reclamation are equal cheats... there is nowhere near the amount of commercial traffic on the upper missouri to justify what they did, and after the channelization which was supposed to boost traffic, there still isn't... but yea, every politican wants their works project...
Tifosi24
09-01-05, 10:06 AM
The Corps might need local approval to make a levee or floodwall, but after that they do what they do. In my old college town, Mankato, MN, they started building the floodwall, and more than halfway through they informed everyone that they would have to build a new bridge because the old one would get cut by the wall. No offer to pay for the new bridge so the state had to fit the bill and four city blocks had to be destroyed.
It's the local and state politicos, Ank. Ask anyone in St. Louis. The Army Corp of Engineers doesn't just come in and build a levy. It requires local approval and funding.
Sorta. Want to build a levee to protect existing housing. Sorry, the USACE bean counters will pull out the graphs and prove the cost-to-benefit ratio doesn't merit it. OTOH, the corps will ink up their seal of approval stamps if you're talking 'bout a new retail/light industrial complex. Who cares if a residential area upstream gets flooded next time because the new levee constricts water flow forcing it higher upstream? The local politico's got their re-election fund padded thick enough to almost appear to be listening with real concern to residents who didn't used to get flooded till that damn new levee went up downstream. Just ask Dick Gephardt if you don't believe me. ;)
More satellite stuff of Katrina's impact:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans-imagery.htm
-Kevin
Superdome Evacuation Halted Amid Gunfire
Tell that to this guy: linky (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?m=/c/pictures/2005/09/02/mn_katrina_schoolbus.jpg&f=/n/a/2005/09/01/national/a071104D97.DTL)
Glad to see someone stepping up. :thumbup:
More satellite stuff of Katrina's impact:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans-imagery.htm
-Kevin
That is normally a great site. They seem to be overwhelmed at the moment.
Here is some images taken by the NOAA: link (http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2495.htm)
That is normally a great site. They seem to be overwhelmed at the moment.
They're getting farked with Drudge linking to them.
-Kevin
This is really turning into a Mad Max scene. This is survival.
Last night on the radio the Parish sherriff was saying that rescue boats were going out in convoys since the rescuers were being attacked. Now they can't even do that.
Shooting at helos, cops looting gun stores to pull the ammo out (guns are long gone), evacs being halted. :shakehead
Red Cross here I come...
I'm having a tough time getting my mind around the scope of this. Even after things calm down in NO there is still going to be more then a million refugees. What the heck do we do with that many suddenly homeless. :saywhat:
I'm having a tough time getting my mind around the scope of this. Even after things calm down in NO there is still going to be more then a million refugees. What the heck do we do with that many suddenly homeless. :saywhat:No ****. I've already thought about whether we can get any kids into our school district up here. I could harbor a kid or two for a school year. Be just like a foreign exchange student. Hell, it IS a foreign exchange student - LA is a bit different than IL. :) "Go on kid, ain't no gaters in that lake. But watch out for the ice."
Red Cross website appears to be mobbed as well. S'pose that's good.
Think about it, klang. Can YOUR school district handle the refugees? It's gonna hafta.
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