Penske starts the IRL engine musical chairs?

[pchall]

link (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050724/SPORTS01/507240446/1052)

Article by Curt Cavin saying that Penske admits to discussions with Honda and Cosworth about supplying IRL engines for 2006, this in spite of his Toyota contract.

"We want to look at our options," Penske said. "We're open to what's the smartest thing to do."


Weird but very, very Penske. He must know exactly how much (or little) To¥ota is planning to do in the way of engine development and support for next season.

[cart7]

So, Chevy may stay to run with a probable Cosworth built engine. Roger may go that way or use his old Honda ties to weasle his way into the Honda camp. Hmmm.....

[Jag_Warrior]

Won't Penske soon have access to some of the same (Ilmor) people who designed the 3.5 Honda and built his Toyotas?

Well, if GM/Chevy stays, I'll be surprised. But someone will owe me some good liquor, so it's all good. :gomer:

[Insomniac]

He is probably talking to Cosworth just in case someone decides to re-badge the Chevy. Or if TG decides to let them supply engines without a manufacturer badge.

[fourrunner]

Lots of Engine Possibilities there ...

BUT Where's the FUNDING for the Millions in Salaries to the Ex CART Drivers .. for 2007

Is Honda still going to pay those salaries ?

Are the Engines Free?

Toyota Gone no matter what

Cosworth won't be doing that Funding

Penske & Ilmor certainly won't do it

Will Tony be paying the bulk of the $ 6-7 million PER CAR that Kanaan claims it takes to run a competetive Team in the IRL

The Sponsor money doesn't cover but a fraction of that figure !!

Is Andretti Green now a 2 car team ?

Is Ganassi gone?

Of course there down 1 Race... so the'll save a Few hundred thousand !

Guess there will be a NEW Vision!!! :eek:

[Jag_Warrior]

Guess there will be a NEW Vision!!! :eek:

Clearly you just do not know what Indy means, Mister!

And I'll tell ya something else... 33 is just a number! And so is 30, 29 and maybe 27.

Time for Tony to go dig up Reverend Ike (he is dead, isn't he?!). Pass the plate, boys... and don't be cheap! I wanna hear the soft flutter of $100 bills laying down, not the clatter of change! We got cars to pay for here and Mr. Penske won't take checks!

And since I haven't said it in awhile... Thanks, Tony! You're a credit to your species (whatever that may be).

[stroker]

Personally, I think I'd be more interested in keeping my ear to the ground on the Penske sponsorship issue. He's got Ilmore in his pocket, so the engine thing is pretty moot at this point. What's interesting to me is that he's not dropping any hints about a replacement for Marlboro. It's also interesting to me that FRP isn't simply writing a check for, say, Penske Trucking to put on his cars. He's too smart to pizz that money away on an indulgence--he's still interested in making money (which may say something about Menard).

My theory is that regardless of what engines he ultimately uses, he's going to need someone to write a check for about 15 big ones for that team for the future. I'm gonna pull up a lawn chair and a cooler of beer to wait and see who it is, because that's going to say a whole bunch about the health of the .1RL...

[oddlycalm]

because that's going to say a whole bunch about the health of the .1RL... Yep, it's not about engines, it's about sponsors. Penske would very likely have announced if he had a replacement. For one thing the new sponsor would have wanted the exposure. If Penske doesn't have a chair when the music stops then you can pretty much figure out the rest.

oc

[DjDrOmusic]

It's intersting that it's Cavin who says that Penske said he was talking to Cosworth and Honda about the IRL engines, when the only direct quote from Penske is "We want to look at our options," Penske said. "We're open to what's the smartest thing to do."

So Roger talked with KK and co. about engines, and also with Honda, who has been talking with KK and Co. We all know that the music will be stopping in the IRL very soon and Roger always wants a seat. KK has also said in the past that he would consider other manufacturers for CC and Roger has Illmore in his pocket, plus a factory that can build chassis that TG wouldn't let build one for the IRL.....hmmm maybe I'm just reaching here, but the 2007 specs for CC aren't that far off!

[stroker]

It's intersting that it's Cavin who says that Penske said he was talking to Cosworth and Honda about the IRL engines, when the only direct quote from Penske is "We want to look at our options," Penske said. "We're open to what's the smartest thing to do."

So Roger talked with KK and co. about engines, and also with Honda, who has been talking with KK and Co. We all know that the music will be stopping in the IRL very soon and Roger always wants a seat. KK has also said in the past that he would consider other manufacturers for CC and Roger has Illmore in his pocket, plus a factory that can build chassis that TG wouldn't let build one for the IRL.....hmmm maybe I'm just reaching here, but the 2007 specs for CC aren't that far off!

Well, Doc, that's an interesting observation, but you can bet that FRP ain't gonna build NO chassis unless somebody be writin' a BIG check. That implies a sponsor of (cue Dr. Klahn) "extra-ordinary magnitude..."

It still gets back to the fact that without Indy no sponsor gets an ROI. Even with Indy they'll give no more money than is justified by their exposure at the 497.5. I'd be very surprised if anyone's going to step up to that plate for Indy alone.

NOW, if you were to say to a prospective sponsor, "Hey, we're gonna have Indy (cuz there ain' no way FTG is going to tell Rog to take a hike) AND we're gonna have Canada, and Mexico (read NAFTA) and South Korea and China (but take your promotional junket to OZ, cuz the wimmen are hotter... :thumbup: )", THEN I can see someone saying, "Oh..., yeah, you say you want how much cash American?"

What's that? You say FRP gets to sell engines and tubs to CC on top of all that? Now THAT sounds like the FRP we all know....

Question is, who's going to be that sponsor?

[nrc]

I wouldn't be surprised if the IRL isn't trying to push Penske toward Cosworth in hopes that Chevy will stick around if they can have a big name team. But I don't see Cosworth letting Penske tinker with their engines the way Toyota does. So with the Ilmor connection Honda would be the obvious choice. It could come at the expense of one or two the AG cars, possibly complete with Honda-buck sponsors.

Some of the IRL teams probably feel like there's a shark loose in the kiddie pool at this point.

[eiregosod]

Penske is better off going with Cosworth. That is, if he wants to be in with a chance of winning races.

penske isnt sounding like somone who is too concerned with the sponsorship level for his team. he must know of some revenue stream for teams if he's going to become an engine supplier to the league :gomer:

[DjDrOmusic]

Well, Doc, that's an interesting observation, but you can bet that FRP ain't gonna build NO chassis unless somebody be writin' a BIG check. That implies a sponsor of (cue Dr. Klahn) "extra-ordinary magnitude..."

It still gets back to the fact that without Indy no sponsor gets an ROI. Even with Indy they'll give no more money than is justified by their exposure at the 497.5. I'd be very surprised if anyone's going to step up to that plate for Indy alone.

NOW, if you were to say to a prospective sponsor, "Hey, we're gonna have Indy (cuz there ain' no way FTG is going to tell Rog to take a hike) AND we're gonna have Canada, and Mexico (read NAFTA) and South Korea and China (but take your promotional junket to OZ, cuz the wimmen are hotter... :thumbup: )", THEN I can see someone saying, "Oh..., yeah, you say you want how much cash American?"

What's that? You say FRP gets to sell engines and tubs to CC on top of all that? Now THAT sounds like the FRP we all know....

Question is, who's going to be that sponsor?

Yes I realize RP won't pull any money from his pockets to compete anywhere, and I really think we're going to see another product that is a subsidiary, say Kraft or the like end up on his sidepods. But my thinking really goes back to the notion that RP wants to go down in history as the man who saved it all. If TG still has the rule that a chassis maker can not make a car for another series then Dallara is gone, since they are doing an F1 design for Midland. Panoz now has an agreement with KK & Co, through ALMS, that, on paper looks to be a win-win for both sides. You have CC and the IRL both coming up with 2007 regs and this could very well be the hand that forces a reunion of the 2 series. I'm not thinking very clearly this morning, the heat is getting to me, but somewhere in all this I can see everyone coming together to force TG into a corner. Of course knowing his past temper tantrums that means he'll run go-Karts for the 500 and proclaim it his vision to let the little guys win the Greatest Race in the World!

[cart7]

Personally, I think I'd be more interested in keeping my ear to the ground on the Penske sponsorship issue. He's got Ilmore in his pocket, so the engine thing is pretty moot at this point. What's interesting to me is that he's not dropping any hints about a replacement for Marlboro. It's also interesting to me that FRP isn't simply writing a check for, say, Penske Trucking to put on his cars. He's too smart to pizz that money away on an indulgence--he's still interested in making money (which may say something about Menard).

My theory is that regardless of what engines he ultimately uses, he's going to need someone to write a check for about 15 big ones for that team for the future. I'm gonna pull up a lawn chair and a cooler of beer to wait and see who it is, because that's going to say a whole bunch about the health of the .1RL...

It was a year or so ago that Cindric did that interview that said Penske was having difficulty finding a replacement sponsor UNLESS there was a merger between the 2 series. About 2 weeks to a month after that interview the Penske re-unification deal began.

[stroker]

Yes I realize RP won't pull any money from his pockets to compete anywhere, and I really think we're going to see another product that is a subsidiary, say Kraft or the like end up on his sidepods. But my thinking really goes back to the notion that RP wants to go down in history as the man who saved it all. If TG still has the rule that a chassis maker can not make a car for another series then Dallara is gone, since they are doing an F1 design for Midland. Panoz now has an agreement with KK & Co, through ALMS, that, on paper looks to be a win-win for both sides. You have CC and the IRL both coming up with 2007 regs and this could very well be the hand that forces a reunion of the 2 series. I'm not thinking very clearly this morning, the heat is getting to me, but somewhere in all this I can see everyone coming together to force TG into a corner. Of course knowing his past temper tantrums that means he'll run go-Karts for the 500 and proclaim it his vision to let the little guys win the Greatest Race in the World!

Again, Doc, I think you're on the right track. The Leeg's been around for 10 years with no result. I think the People With Money who used to Make Money on the 500 have just about had enough of empty stands and nothing ratings. Based on the last 12 months it sounds to me like FRP, Honda, KK are building bridges to ultimately benefit themselves and will either ultimately make FTG an offer he can't refuse or allow him to go hide in his bunker with Eva and allow the institution to be destroyed.

Y'know, I was wondering just the other day... Individual sponsors have undoubtedly spent significant cash on .1RL sponsorship over the last 10 years with little to no return--that's okay. My thought was more focused on what sponsors or institutions pre-1996 really profited from the status of Indy being Indy. It's difficult to explain what I'm thinking because I don't know if there's a word describing what I mean. Think of the individual sponsor companies, and then think of them in a sort of a super or metasponsorship context--something beyond Proctor and Gamble--the next step up from that. Am I making any sense with that?

Do you think it's a case of those sponsors and institutions:

A. still make money, just not as much
B. lose money

and if so, how much $ do you think we're talking about?

[JoeBob]

HPD has talked about manufacturing their own engine for 2007. IMS could be pushing for Honda vs. Chevy-Illmor. Penske building his own Chevy-Illmors wouldn't be a first.

If they can get the Penske/Chevy/Cosworth thing for 2006, they'll have a shot at Chevy-Illmor in 2007. That would still leave the Cosworth available for someone (or unbadged)

[trauma1]

Dallara and Midland have already split, Dallara will do some . but midland will do thier own design now .