View Full Version : Kirby stomps Despain
coolhand
08-03-05, 10:10 PM
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9478
Some commentators like Dave Despain like to discount Champ Car's street races, claiming that most of the spectators aren't race fans. Personally, I chuckle at many of Despain's opinions because in more than thirty years of covering over eight hundred motor races of all types across the United States and around the world I've never met or encountered him. I ask, how can a man who has so little history of actually covering many forms of the sport be an expert? And as Oriol Servia said last weekend, he was impressed with how knowledgeable many of the fans were in San Jose.
:thumbup: :)
:thumbup: :)
Despain is clearly in line to be the next Brock Yates. It's nice to see him spanked by a real journalist.
Two thumbs up! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Skater_36
08-04-05, 09:12 AM
There are a few "journalists" who cover racing yet never seem to be at the tracks. Coincidentaly, many favor the IRL. A good example would be Forrest Bond, windbag extraordiniare.
Personally, I chuckle at many of Despain's opinions because in more than thirty years of covering over eight hundred motor races of all types across the United States and around the world I've never met or encountered him. TFF :laugh::thumbup:
Sorry, but I have to agree with Despain on this one. If you ever go to Long Beach GP you'll know what I'm talking about. 70% of the people there barely know the difference between IRL & Champcars. That's why if the IRL ever end up at Long Beach, there will not be any difference in attendance, other then 100 or so off camber members, who’ll boycott the deal.....
At the end of the day, if Despain was way off base, then the TV ratings in L.A would be a lot higher then they are. I mean if everyone at the LBGP are actual Champcar fans, then they’d watch the races on TV, right? They are fans of racing, in the fact that they know the difference between Alex Zanardi and Sebastian Bourdais, but not fans enough to follow the whole season on the internet or on TV. I’m sure less then 10% of the fans at LBGP know that Dan Weldon raced at Long Beach 2 or 3 times in the Champcar feeder series, that’s for sure. Basically, they are casual race fans like I’m a casual baseball fan, who goes to a game once in a while, but won’t watch one on TV unless it was game 7 of the world series, and even that, I won’t watch the whole deal.
Long Beach could have Grand-Am headline the race, and the attendance won't be effected by more then 10%.
People can slap themselves on the back all they want. But if every "race" was like San Jose, we wouldn't be called race fans anymore.
People use to scream when passes were made, now they scream when attendance is announced. :shakehead
People can slap themselves on the back all they want. But if every "race" was like San Jose, we wouldn't be called race fans anymore.
People use to scream when passes were made, now they scream when attendance is announced. :shakehead
But every race is not like San Jose. I doubt next year's San Jose race will be like this years.
I was in Toronto a few weeks ago for the races. People do still scream and cheer when passes are made.
Boy, the D & G is getting thick around here from some.
On to Denver!
Ah, the age-old “event fan vs. race fan” argument. Here’s my take. Sponsors don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. They just like butts in the seats. Television cameras don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. They just like butts in the seats. Vendors don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. They just like money in the register. And frankly, I don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. As long as I get to watch great competition with people who are glad to be there, I’m happy. Champ Car has played before packed houses the past four races. The sponsors are happy, the television cameras are happy. The vendors are happy. And I’m happy. :thumbup:
That's why if the IRL ever end up at Long Beach, ....
I'd like to hear your scenario where this could possibly happen. The IRL is the absolute last series the new ownership in LB would bring in.
At the end of the day, if Despain was way off base, then the TV ratings in L.A would be a lot higher then they are. I recall press releases from CART showing that their ratings were higher on average in race markets than other markets. They don't have to be huge, they just need to be above average and because of the size of the market that will raise the average overall.
But every race is not like San Jose. I doubt next year's San Jose race will be like this years.
I was in Toronto a few weeks ago for the races. People do still scream and cheer when passes are made.
Boy, the D & G is getting thick around here from some.
On to Denver!
I don't mind "event fans" because it's part of the game. But if they were all like this the "event fans" could have it. I'm just glad Edmonton was first, or it would be D&G weeks and weeks before the race.
Street races are hits and misses, no one knows how many fans it gets for the rest of the races. An event here and there is fine. Even the IRL has figured that one out. But do they create some lasting fan base? I also doubt it. But they create a great party base.
Andrew Longman
08-04-05, 11:48 AM
Ah, the age-old “event fan vs. race fan” argument. Here’s my take. Sponsors don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. They just like butts in the seats. Television cameras don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. They just like butts in the seats. Vendors don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. They just like money in the register. And frankly, I don’t care if there are event fans or if there are race fans at the track. As long as I get to watch great competition with people who are glad to be there, I’m happy. Champ Car has played before packed houses the past four races. The sponsors are happy, the television cameras are happy. The vendors are happy. And I’m happy. :thumbup:
And when everyone is happy the bills get paid and this extrordanarily expensive sport continues. What difference does it make if your strategy carries the same fans from race to race or generates only fans of a particular event each week, so long as you have enough fans to please the sponsors, promoters, vendors, etc.?
I'm happy.
Besides, if NASCAR is the benchmark, then I have to look at the numerous NASCAR fans I know. They pay attention to who wins each week, but in no way do they watch every race on TV or even every lap of the races they do watch. Not even close.
They make sure to watch the D500 and they each attend 1-2 actual races (most likely WG and LV because they like the venues, that is other things to do in the area besides the race... What does that sound like?). Nascar's advantage is much more that they have so many fans, not that they follow the series with such dedication, though they have that too.
RacinM3
08-04-05, 12:01 PM
I disagree that 70% of the LB crowd is clueless. More like 50% and probably in line with crowd knowledge (or lack thereof) at the Indy 500, or nearly every other race (including the Daytona 500). Tell me there are no "event fans" there.
I would say that ALMS (small crowds) and MotoGP (large crowds) races probably have the highest fan knowledge in the US.
Back on topic - you can't ignore Kirby's comments.....if you're not there to gauge the crowd and the event, you're short of info to comment about it.
JLMannin
08-04-05, 12:24 PM
Dave Despain the next Brock Yates? No aim higher. Forrest Bond? No, aim hiher still. Dave Despain the next Chris Economaki? That's on target!!
oddlycalm
08-04-05, 12:52 PM
Champ Car has played before packed houses the past four races. Exactly right. However, I also understand that a certain amount displeasure on the forum has to do with the fact that those four venues are not the tracks that many of the folks here used to attend Champcar races at. If I drove to Laguna Seca every year for the race and then was presented with a San Jose street race as an option I'd certainly be disapointed. Other have lost their races period. It's not just that RA and MO are gone, there is no longer a race in Texas, Michigan or anyplace in the US East of Cleveland for that matter. Seeing them replaced with street races in places that these folks are never going to get to isn't a recipe for glee.
oc
Dave Despain the next Brock Yates? No aim higher. Forrest Bond? No, aim hiher still. Dave Despain the next Chris Economaki? That's on target!!
The aim need to be lower to hit those guys with the golden shower they want.
racer2c
08-04-05, 01:45 PM
Dispain's a tool. But what do you expect from someone who thinks Harley's sliding around in circles is the ultimate racing.
You are right, it might be closer to 50% then 70%. I've been going to Long Beach 1 day out of the 3 since 1979, some years all 3-days. I've worked with people who went every year for 10 or so years, get the Toyota Super Pass and the whole deal, but can care less about the series 363 days out of the year. I also have worked at companies who get a hospitality deal, send 150 people to the race, but won't put their name on a car to save their lives. And, most of the employees who go every year can't tell the difference between an Indy Light to F.Atlantic or da Matta from Zanardi.
At the end of the day, if LBGP got cancled one year at the last minute because of whatever and they moved the race to California Speedway road course (about an hour and half north-east) on the same weekend, less then 25,000 people would show up.....They are both the same distance, 15-minute difference tops, from West Los Angeles, Santa Monica, Hollywood. Ya, the local Long Beach people would obviously not take the drive, when they could walk to LBGP, but you might gain the Fontana or Riverside residences instead. Still, I say less then 25,000 would show up. Meaning, that the event is the pull, not the race!
coolhand
08-04-05, 02:35 PM
Besides, if NASCAR is the benchmark, then I have to look at the numerous NASCAR fans I know. They pay attention to who wins each week, but in no way do they watch every race on TV or even every lap of the races they do watch. Not even close.
They make sure to watch the D500 and they each attend 1-2 actual races (most likely WG and LV because they like the venues, that is other things to do in the area besides the race... What does that sound like?). Nascar's advantage is much more that they have so many fans, not that they follow the series with such dedication, though they have that too.
Great point :thumbup:
NASCAR fans dont know the stories about Robby Gordon, tony Stewart and most of the great drivers in the field.
They either show up to root for Jeff Gordon vs. Dale Earnhardt Jr. or Ford vs. Chevy
and maybe a free carton of cigs.
Racing Truth
08-04-05, 03:29 PM
Great point :thumbup:
1. NASCAR fans dont know the stories about Robby Gordon, tony Stewart and most of the great drivers in the field.
2. They either show up to root for Jeff Gordon vs. Dale Earnhardt Jr. or Ford vs. Chevy
and maybe a free carton of cigs.
1. What?????
2. Your point? So what, they are genuinely INTERESTED in the RACING, say what you will about it.
Your last comment might be funny, but its just plain silly, IMHO.
Tell you what, go to San Jose in a month. See how many people will be able to name a ChampCar driver. Then do the same for NASCAR drivers.
$100 says FAR more will name multiple NASCAR drivers as opposed to CC drivers.
Andrew might be right. The series will be a success of sorts. But a street or "urban" dominated series has ceiling I think. I just question if you're really building a SUSTAINED fan base. And that's what matters, IMHO.
That said, there is something to the image issue. What's that? Well, you're flipping the channels, and turn on a Toronto for instance. You kinda like fast cars, so you watch for a few minutes. Then you see all the stands full. Now, subconciously, there's something more attractive about watching something that APPEARS popular. Consistent good crowds could attract something beyond event fans.
coolhand
08-04-05, 05:30 PM
1. What?????
2. Your point? So what, they are genuinely INTERESTED in the RACING, say what you will about it.
Perhaps i did not do a good job of saying that most NASCAR fans fit a certain mold of who they do and dont root for. they maybe follow half the races of the regualr nascar season and look to see how their favorites did.
Your last comment might be funny, but its just plain silly, IMHO.
people did do it when Winston was the title sponsor.
Tell you what, go to San Jose in a month. See how many people will be able to name a ChampCar driver. Then do the same for NASCAR drivers.
I never disagreed with you on that point. But i was just saying that NASCAR fans dont have to think to much about the sport, they just show up to see how Earnhardt, Gordon, Marlin, Martin etc. did.
Tony Stewart is easier to remember then Sebasian Bourdais.
$100 says FAR more will name multiple NASCAR drivers as opposed to CC drivers.
you are correct, plus there are around 43 drivers in a NASCAR field so its easier to remember one.
Andrew might be right. The series will be a success of sorts. But a street or "urban" dominated series has ceiling I think. I just question if you're really building a SUSTAINED fan base. And that's what matters, IMHO.
That said, there is something to the image issue. What's that? Well, you're flipping the channels, and turn on a Toronto for instance. You kinda like fast cars, so you watch for a few minutes. Then you see all the stands full. Now, subconciously, there's something more attractive about watching something that APPEARS popular. Consistent good crowds could attract something beyond event fans.
i think we are the same page. good points
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