Ruins of Detroit

[oddlycalm]

Not sure if this site has been posted here or not, but I couldn't find any references by searching.

The Ruins of Detroit site is an amazing way to waste part of a day. During the 1950's and 1960's it was inconcievable that these grand old buildings would be in ruins by the turn of the century and that vast tracks of the city, measured in square miles, would have returned to their natural state and have more deer living in them than people.
Ruins of Detroit (http://detroityes.com/webisodes.htm)

I recommend the Classic Tour in the arrow link at the top of the page for first time visitors, but if you have broadband and some time to kill there are dozens of tours if you go to the Index.

I know some of you have been there to races, both the F1 race downtown and the Champcars on Belle Isle, so you will recognize some of the ruins in the various tours such as the Detroit Boat Club building.

A growing business is tours of the ruins, and I know a couple people that are currently planning trips for next year. It's surreal to me having been there when the city was at it's peak of activity.

oc

[RichK]

Great site!

This picture tells quite a story about where our country is headed; a "service industry" mall placed right in front of a teetering manufacturing plant (the Model T plant, of all things).

http://detroityes.com/rise/22modelT_plaza.jpg

[Wabbit]

It's all part of the economic recovery. Didn't you know that we don't need to produce anything anymore? We can all live off wages of the service industry selling superior Chinese and Korean products while our software is all developed in India and Russia.

[Winston Wolfe]

It's all part of the economic recovery. Didn't you know that we don't need to produce anything anymore? We can all live off wages of the service industry selling superior Chinese and Korean products while our software is all developed in India and Russia.


Sad, but true ! :shakehead

[nrc]

It's all part of the economic recovery. Didn't you know that we don't need to produce anything anymore? We can all live off wages of the service industry selling superior Chinese and Korean products while our software is all developed in India and Russia.
Do you want fries with that?

Maybe someone in Detroit should do a "Motorcycle tour of Chernobyl" parody web site.

[racer2c]

Do you want fries with that?

Maybe someone in Detroit should do a "Motorcycle tour of Chernobyl" parody web site.

That would be awesome. The parody, not the fries. I mean, hey, I like fries, but they're not 'awesome'.

[racer2c]

It's all part of the economic recovery. Didn't you know that we don't need to produce anything anymore? We can all live off wages of the service industry selling superior Chinese and Korean products while our software is all developed in India and Russia.

and all the tech support. Even my crappy liitle company transferred all of it's tech reps to India.

[Gnam]

Maybe someone in Detroit should do a "Motorcycle tour of Chernobyl" parody web site.
That's what it reminded me of. In the Bay Area it's been non stop building for about 5 years now. To see all that real estate sitting empty is strange.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I'm sorry, only Americans are supposed to have jobs? :confused:

[RichK]

I'm sorry, only Americans are supposed to have jobs? :confused:

It's not about jobs, it's about the US losing its expertise at creating and making things.

[racer2c]

I'm sorry, only Americans are supposed to have jobs? :confused:

I thought you were a biz major. :confused: :gomer:

[oddlycalm]

I'm sorry, only Americans are supposed to have jobs? :confused: No grasshopper, it's about the fact that much of what was the zenith of 20th century manufacturing might is now empty ruins of a prior age and it happened over a span of just three decades, which is within the lifespan of most of us here.

As far as jobs go, the future opportunities that have been and are being lost are yours, those for people your age and those that will come after you. Given a few more years you may even figure out who pissed it all away and how they managed to do it.... ;)

oc

[Wabbit]

I'm sorry, only Americans are supposed to have jobs? :confused:


No, it's a fact that the U.S. has exported most manufacturing jobs to the point where we aren't manufacturing much of anything. IT jobs are on the way out. The only thing left in this country that we still produce is food. And I'm sure if some idiot could figure out how to export those jobs, he would. It's bad enough we have to import workers to do most of the above listed jobs already with our unemployment rate is so high. Don't believe the 5% the government is saying either, it's more like 18% if you take a hard look and interpret the data yourself.

It's the greedy corporations looking at short term profit goals that don't see that offshoring is going to cost more in the long run because nobody here is going to have a job left to buy anything.

(If this is gets too political, delete it please)

[Ankf00]

I thought you were a biz major. :confused: :gomer:

you give him far too much credit, he's marketing ;)


as for outsourcing, it's what happens when you reap the benefits of free-trade agreements, too bad most of us don't have the capital to fund major investments or we'd really be benefiting from the FTAs...

I have a question though: they include RoboCop on those tours? :)

[Sean O'Gorman]

You guys are reading too deep into my statement. I'm not saying what has happened was right, but I have a tendency to overreact when the topic of outsourcing comes up because when it is discussed here in good ol' racist Parma, it is usually followed by racist or ethnic slurs. As if white middle class Americans are the only ones who deserve to have jobs. :shakehead

I realize you guys are obviously above that (I hope...Chris Paff isn't registered here is he?), so I probably shouldn't have said what I did.

[RichK]

I have a question though: they include RoboCop on those tours? :)

The tour vehicle is the SUX 2000! :D

[Wabbit]

You guys are reading too deep into my statement. I'm not saying what has happened was right, but I have a tendency to overreact when the topic of outsourcing comes up because when it is discussed here in good ol' racist Parma, it is usually followed by racist or ethnic slurs. As if white middle class Americans are the only ones who deserve to have jobs. :shakehead

I realize you guys are obviously above that (I hope...Chris Paff isn't registered here is he?), so I probably shouldn't have said what I did.

No racial slurs or comments from me, just sour feelings knowing that the jobs of several friends of mine are now located in India, and I was 2 days away from mine being shipped off before a manager finally decided that it wasn't a good idea.

[Rob]

That's a fascinating site, oddlycalm. Thanks! :thumbup: I found a few similar ones that had me spending countless hours poring through:

Forgotten New York (http://www.forgotten-ny.com/)

Lost Brooklyn (http://www.lostbrooklyn.org/)

Built St. Louis (http://www.builtstlouis.net/)

[racer2c]

you give him far too much credit, he's marketing ;)




Ah, marketing. That's right. They work with Publisher 2003 I think. :)

[Sean O'Gorman]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=marketing


2. Marketing
A career in which people (normally men who have an issue with their sexuality and drive Mopeds) state the obvious and get paid a lot of money for it. They normally have catchy initials like AA or RR and spend a lot of time getting their signature to look important
Anyone wearing a pink shirt on a regular basis and working in Hammersmith.

-SOG

[emjaya]

it is usually followed by racist or ethnic slurs.


Those 4"11 fat chicks .

fat chick slurs ok then :shakehead

[rabbit]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=marketing

1. Marketing

You see a gorgeous girl at a party. You go up to her and say, "I'm fantastic in bed."
That's Direct Marketing

You're at a party with a bunch of friends and see a gorgeous girl. One of your friends goes up to her and pointing at you says, "He's fantastic in bed."
That's Advertising

You see a gorgeous girl at a party. You go up to her and get her telephone number. The next day you call and say, "Hi, I'm fantastic in bed."
That's Telemarketing

You're at a party and see a gorgeous girl. You get up and straighten your tie, you walk up to her and pour her a drink. You open the door for her, pick up her bag after she drops it, offer her a ride, and then say, "By the way, I'm fantastic in bed."
That's Public Relations

You're at a party and see a gorgeous girl. She walks up to you and says, I hear you're fantastic in bed."
That's Brand Recognition :laugh:

[Stu]

fat chick slurs ok then :shakehead


How is it a slur if she is indeed fat and also a chick? Well, we think she's a chick.




And for the record, without marketing, there are no motorsports. So love it.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Anyway, getting back on topic, does anyone know if there is a similar site like this for Cleveland?

[Tifosi24]

A very sad sight, to see so much great architecture left to just rot. It is amazing how he is just able to walk around and inside the abandoned buildings. There were a few apartment building designs in there that will no doubt make a smart developer some serious money if he "borrows" the design, got to love gentrification. The most striking tour of a building would have to be the old Michigan Central rail terminal. It is unreal that all of the platform and railbeds would still be there today, albeit it a total state of disrepair. His comments about mass transit were also nice, but the real truth about that ending would be borderline too political, so I will save that for another day.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Anyway, getting back on topic, does anyone know if there is a similar site like this for Cleveland?

Oh wait, here it is. (http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/) :D

[Dr. Corkski]

How is it a slur if she is indeed fat and also a chick? Well, we think she's a chick.Didn't you get the memo that those jokes are only OK when referring to Sarah Fisher. :gomer:

[RacinM3]

Cities ignore their historical landmarks at their own peril. I grew up in Pasadena, CA. The intersection of Fair Oaks and Colorado Blvd., right in the heart of the Rose Parade route, when I was growing up, was a bad, bad part of town. Decrepit buildings, many, many homeless, high crime and drug use. You did NOT go there.

It would have been easy to tear it down and redevelop. Luckily, Pasadena has a strong historical preservation society (VERY strong), who fought hard to preserve and restore the area. Now called Old Town Pasadena, the area is massively popular with both residents and tourists, and the revival has greatly increased property values AND the quality of life of everyone in the surrounding area.

Here's a decent site on Old Pasadena: http://www.oldpasadena.com/

A good example of the strength of the Pasadena Historical Society is the Blacker House, a residence built in 1907 and designed by famous Arts and Crafts architects Greene and Greene, who designed many grand homes of this style in Pasadena, Long Beach, and a few other CA cities.

http://www.artsmia.org/modernism/mrimages/09/mr917f.jpg

http://www.langlab.wayne.edu/Models/Travel/02/009.jpg

The Greenes were well known not only for the houses, but also the lighting, furnishings, stained glass, etc. Each house typically came furnished, with many of the furnishings and fixtures having specific characteristics/markings that identified the home from which they came. In the 70's, the resident of the Blacker House had a big garage sale, selling off many of the furnishings, most of which have found their way into private collections or museums. In the 80's, the house was purchased by a guy from Texas, who literally in the dark of night stripped it of all of it's light fixtures, art glass windows, front doors (which were works of art in themselves) and other parts. He ended up auctioning them off for more than he purchased the house, then sold the house, making a nice little profit.

The incident enraged the people of Pasadena, strengthening the Historical Society to where the City passed laws making it illegal to strip architectural treasures. I'm not sure if any other city in the US has these or similar laws.

Forunately for fans of the Greene and Greene style, a married couple a few years ago purchased the Blacker House, and has spent untold money restoring it. Parts they could not recover were copied painstakingly. I toured the house last year, and it is the most amazing home I have ever seen.

Since you've read this far, I'll tell you a little Huntington Beach, CA (where I live now) history as well. Henry Huntington, a Pasadena millionaire philanthropist, also developed Huntington Beach as a vacation spot for Pasadena residents (as well as an oil-producing area). One of the things that drew me there was the Pasadena architectural influence. If you know anything about Orange County, CA, you know that old-school architecture is definitely NOT one of its' strong points. HB has (had - I'll get there) a LOT of older wood frame, raised foundation homes, built in the Pasadena style. Most are smaller bungalows.

Downtown HB had ALL the makings of what Old Town Pasadena became. Sort of run down, but you could see the character in the architecture. Unfortunately for me and other HB residents, the HB city council did not have the foresight of the Pasadena city council. In the 90's, most of the old downtown buildings were razed to put up "great new" buildings, instead of being restored.

So while Old Town Pasadena sees affluent upper middle class people coming to spend their money in a classic environment, and a VERY stable base of stores/restaraunts, downtown HB sees primarily kids (with no money to spend), and an extremely transitory retail/restaraunt environment. When my wife and I go to dinner in downtown HB, we have to fight our way through a bunch of kids to go to a restaraunt that we don't know will be around next week. So we just don't go there anymore, instead spending time in neighboring Newport Beach.

As you can guess, I'm a big fan of older architecture. I literally feel pain when I see the old buildings torn down. These are elements of our past that cannot be replaced. It's especially hard being in CA, where ever-changing earthquake codes are constantly giving builders and owners excuses for tearing down our architectural masterpieces. It's a constant fight.

That may have been my longest post ever!

[oddlycalm]

A very sad sight, to see so much great architecture left to just rot. It is amazing how he is just able to walk around and inside the abandoned buildings.
-snip-
His comments about mass transit were also nice, but the real truth about that ending would be borderline too political, so I will save that for another day. Agreed, there is some world class architecture that has been left to rot. In my case it's these are the buildings that I learned an appreciation of good architecture from in a happier time, so aside from the astounding waste, it's painful to see.

As far as being able to walk around inside these buildings, there's simply nobody around to keep people out. Many of these buildings exist in vast empty fields where all the other structures have been destroyed. That's what makes it so surreal in person to me, that such huge tracts of land could have gone back to their natural state with just the odd structure here or there. Well over half of the population of Detroit is simply gone. It would be a great place to film a post apocolyptic film without having to construct a single set... :cool:

I agree that any serious discussion of the factors that contributed to this decay could get political and not appropriate to this forum, but the biggest single factor is something we can all stand a periodic reminder of; it takes great leaders a long time to build something worth having yet it takes lesser people very little time to lay waste to those great things. What is also relevent to this forum is all the former companies that were racing sponsors that died along with this city. Anyone that attended the i500 during the 50's and 60's probably knows what I mean. :(

oc

[oddlycalm]

So while Old Town Pasadena sees affluent upper middle class people coming to spend their money in a classic environment, and a VERY stable base of stores/restaraunts, downtown HB sees primarily kids (with no money to spend), and an extremely transitory retail/restaraunt environment. Exactly right. Attempts to transplant strip mall suburbia to a core area always backfire in the same way; the developer throws up some cheap, cold concrete buildings and takes his money and runs while the city gets hosed with a core area that is a failure. That's why the cities that have remainded viable have architectural review boards, strict zoning and well funded historical preservation societies that hold city council accountable so that they aren't bought and paid for by quick buck developers. Long term value costs more but it's also worth a lot more.

Thanks for the background on Pasadena. I agree that the results are outstanding. Now, if I could only afford to live there... ;)

oc

[Ankf00]

Exactly right. Attempts to transplant strip mall suburbia to a core area always backfire in the same way; the developer throws up some cheap, cold concrete buildings and takes his money and runs while the city gets hosed with a core area that is a failure. That's why the cities that have remainded viable have architectural review boards, strict zoning and well funded historical preservation societies that hold city council accountable so that they aren't bought and paid for by quick buck developers. Long term value costs more but it's also worth a lot more.

Thanks for the background on Pasadena. I agree that the results are outstanding. Now, if I could only afford to live there... ;)

oc


The City of Houston, zone-free... :D Most of the old mansions on Main have been torn down and replaced with strip-malls, welcome to sprawlopolis. :)

[rosawendel]

Anyway, getting back on topic, does anyone know if there is a similar site like this for Cleveland?

closest i could think of off-hand: the cleveland memory project (http://www.clevelandmemory.org/)

[Anteater]

Those images of the Detroit ruins are so sad and disturbing. Oddlycalm shared the site with me shortly after I returned from the Cleveland race, and I thought that Cleveland was doing a better job of trying to preserve its historical buildings. But a local like SeanO probably sees things that I didn't.

You have a point about the dearth of old-school architecture in OC, RacinM3, but it isn't a total wasteland. The City of Orange has blocks of lovely old buildings:
http://www.otpa.org/index.html

[Michaelhatesfans]

I agree that any serious discussion of the factors that contributed to this decay could get political and not appropriate to this forum....
Hence my conspicuous absence.(do we have a "gagged" smilie?)

[RacinM3]

You're right, Anteater. Orange does have some great old buildings and homes, especially around the traffic circle area. Also Anaheim, and even Santa Ana both have some decent buildings.

[eiregosod]

Food Gathering in the Post Industrial West :(

[eiregosod]

I picked up Michael Lesy's "Dreamland: America at the dawn of the 20th Century" from the library today. Most of the pictures were taken by the Detroit publishing co. . The pictures contrast the city-scapes with the life of those who didnt live in the cities

[Napoleon]

Anyway, getting back on topic, does anyone know if there is a similar site like this for Cleveland?

As far as I know this is as close as it gets [whoops just noticed the post above with this link]

http://www.clevelandmemory.org/

This is kind of on topic for Cleveland


http://www.clevelandrestoration.org/

http://web.ulib.csuohio.edu/SpecColl/cdl/links.html

Something I got into this year was biking on the Ohio & Erie Towpath and was amazed at how much of a 200 year old canal that runs from downtown Cleveland to Akron and south to join the lake with the river. If you are ever in Penisula walk to where you can get to where they built a structure to float the barges on a bridge over the Cuyahoga River.

http://www.canalwayohio.com/

[Sean O'Gorman]

Something I got into this year was biking on the Ohio & Erie Towpath and was amazed at how much of a 200 year old canal that runs from downtown Cleveland to Akron and south to join the lake with the river. If you are ever in Penisula walk to where you can get to where they built a structure to float the barges on a bridge over the Cuyahoga River.

http://www.canalwayohio.com/

Biked it four years ago, and walked it two years ago for a school project. Cool stuff. :thumbup:

EDIT: Err, I biked Peninsula. I have no idea where the hell you went, but count me out. :o :laugh:

[spirit_of_99]

For those that are into this "lost" architecture stuff, there's a series of cool books called "Lost Chicago," "Lost New York," "Lost New Orleans," and I believe there are a couple of others in the series. Some are out of print, but they pop up on eBay.

Here is a link to "Lost Chicago" on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823028712/qid=1127253811/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-4351173-9235935?v=glance&s=books). The Chicago book is the best, IMO, but then again that could be because I'm a Chicagoan.

[eiregosod]

. The Chicago book is the best, IMO, but then again that could be because I'm a Chicagoan.

then again, architecture is a big deal in CHicago, and the beauty of the buildings can be seen from street level.

[DjDrOmusic]

There is an interesting site called Forgotten Ohio that has some great stuff about old buildings, drive in's, abandoned towns and of course the usual haunted places, here's the link:

Fogotten Ohio (www.forgottenoh.com)

[Sean O'Gorman]

There is an interesting site called Forgotten Ohio that has some great stuff about old buildings, drive in's, abandoned towns and of course the usual haunted places, here's the link:

Fogotten Ohio (www.forgottenoh.com)

Thanks for that link. This place here is like five miles from my house:

http://www.forgottenoh.com/Broadview/broadview.html

Man is it creepy. :eek: