NASCAR busybodies...

[indyfan31]

Good grief! Is there anything that NASCAR doesn't have their fingers in?

NASCAR penalizes crew chiefs (http://www.sportsline.com/autoracing/story/8816800)

When will they start regulating the caloric intake of the drivers? (Not that some of the crews couldn't use some regulatin' ;) )

[Gangrel]

Good grief! Is there anything that NASCAR doesn't have their fingers in?

NASCAR penalizes crew chiefs (http://www.sportsline.com/autoracing/story/8816800)

When will they start regulating the caloric intake of the drivers? (Not that some of the crews couldn't use some regulatin' ;) )

Not sure what the problem is here. Two crew chiefs got caught, apparently during tech inspection, breaking the rules. One put a car on the track with an illegal gear ratio, and the other with a car that was (I would guess) not up to safety standards. What do you recommend? Let it slide? Fine the drivers? I am no fan of taxicab racing, but these calls look to me to be the right ones.

[indyfan31]

Sorry I wasn't more specific, but am I the only one who sees the stupidity of an illegal "gear ratio"?

[cameraman]

It is called cheating.
They have specs for gear ratios, they used illegal ones, on purpose.

Why are defending blatant cheating?

[indyfan31]

It is called cheating.
They have specs for gear ratios, they used illegal ones, on purpose.

Why are defending blatant cheating?
Because it shouldn't be illegal in the first place. It should be part of the setup. If you pick the wrong ratio you're either too slow or you blow up the motor; a high school street racer knows that.
I wouldn't care if they regulated the manufacturing of the gears, but he number of TEETH??? Come on.

[FCYTravis]

Lots of series mandate gear ratio sets.

[Gangrel]

I'd be willing to be that illegal gear ratio wasn't there to take some of the edge off the car's speed. So if a champ car team decides to add a few inches to their turbo boost, and they get caught in tech, CCWS should just let it slide, and not fine or suspend the crew chiefs?

Edit: Obviously there was a way to get more power out of that car by using a taller gear than the series mandates, or at least the crew chief was trying to find one. Break the rules, do the time.

[Gnam]

Hardly outrageous. Hell, NASCAR wouldn't let them shift gears at Pocono.

[cameraman]

Champ Car regulates the technical aspects of the differential too.

9.20. DIFFERENTIAL.
The differential may not be electronically controlled. The limited slip system may incorporate a pump(s). A spool must be fitted at all oval events. Driver controlled differentials are prohibited. Differential systems must be approved by the Technical Director for compliance to the technical rules and to a maximum unit price cap. All approved systems must be made available for sale to all entrants. Unfortunately the web site does not list the specific "technical rules". I wish they would, it would be interesting to see the full technical regs.

[indyfan31]

Champ Car regulates the technical aspects of the differential too.
Unfortunately the web site does not list the specific "technical rules". I wish they would, it would be interesting to see the full technical regs.
Like you said, this may not be complete (and yet it might be), but it doesn't list ratios, just the system as a whole and it's availability and pricing.

[indyfan31]

I'd be willing to be that illegal gear ratio wasn't there to take some of the edge off the car's speed. So if a champ car team decides to add a few inches to their turbo boost, and they get caught in tech, CCWS should just let it slide, and not fine or suspend the crew chiefs?

Edit: Obviously there was a way to get more power out of that car by using a taller gear than the series mandates, or at least the crew chief was trying to find one. Break the rules, do the time.

I wish people would read more carefully before hammering me on what I didn't say. I'm not saying it's ok to break the rules, I'm saying it's a stupid rule to have. Does NASCAR mandate which groove you should take in a particular turn? How may degrees before TDC the plugs can fire? (I wouldn't be surprised anymore)
If you do run a taller gear and get more power, you risk getting lousy gas mileage or running RPMs that are too high and may blow the motor. This should be a decision that a crew chief/engineer makes, not NASCAR.

Do you guys really believe it's good for the on-track product that they regulate EVERY SINGLE MINUTE DETAIL of the car to the point when all you have to do is steer the damn thing?

(... as I type this rant I'm beginning to wonder if the words "gear ratio" might not have been a typo.)

[Gangrel]

I wish people would read more carefully before hammering me on what I didn't say. I'm not saying it's ok to break the rules, I'm saying it's a stupid rule to have. Does NASCAR mandate which groove you should take in a particular turn? How may degrees before TDC the plugs can fire? (I wouldn't be surprised anymore)
If you do run a taller gear and get more power, you risk getting lousy gas mileage or running RPMs that are too high and may blow the motor. This should be a decision that a crew chief/engineer makes, not NASCAR.

Do you guys really believe it's good for the on-track product that they regulate EVERY SINGLE MINUTE DETAIL of the car to the point when all you have to do is steer the damn thing?

(... as I type this rant I'm beginning to wonder if the words "gear ratio" might not have been a typo.)

I don't see that they necessarily mandate the height of *every* gear in the box, but rather the tallest gear you are allowed to use. Sounds like a rule intended to set a baseline, and this crew chief blew through that baseline and didn't look back. While this may or may not be the best alternative to regulating power and speed, it doesn't sound like it is unheard of. And as I said before, there must be a benefit to running a taller than spec gear in the box, 'cause otherwise this guy wouldn't have been caught running one.

[FCYTravis]

Should Champ Car mandate turbo boost? Obviously, the engines are designed to handle much more pressure than they're currently taking. Shouldn't it be a crew chief's decision to turn it down for longevity or crank it up until the intake manifold bleeds, 200-mile life be damned?

[RichK]

Gear-ratio restrictions are small potatoes when compared to homogenized bodywork (I'm a Ford headlight sticker fan myself), restrictor plates, and suspension spring rates.

[oddlycalm]

Do you guys really believe it's good for the on-track product that they regulate EVERY SINGLE MINUTE DETAIL of the car to the point when all you have to do is steer the damn thing? How else can they preserve that 1965 technology in it's purest form...? ;)

Your mistake was in trying to apply any sort of general logic to what is an illogical and anachronistic racing formula. If logical thought entered into it anywhere they wouldn't be running tube frame cars with pushrod engines sporting carburetors and the bodies wouldn't all be shaped the same regardless of the car model they are supposed to be loosely based on. They are selling driver personalities with WWE-type story lines and they don't want any team to have sufficient technical advantage to screw up their storyboarded races. IMO this is an activity that doesn't rise to the level where it can accurately be called racing.

oc

[indyfan31]

Should Champ Car mandate turbo boost? Obviously, the engines are designed to handle much more pressure than they're currently taking. Shouldn't it be a crew chief's decision to turn it down for longevity or crank it up until the intake manifold bleeds, 200-mile life be damned?
You're missing my point Travis, Turbo Boost and gear ratios are not the same thing. The carburetors in NASCAR are already made to specs, and further regulated with a plate at specific tracks.
If they're allowed to build their own motors, why can't the be allowed to decide how their power is applied to the wheels? All I'm saying is that if you pick the wrong setup, it shows as you get left behind by the pack. Gear ratios should be part of the setup.

Gangrel. What you're saying may be true, but if everybody can do it, where's the unfair advantage?

[Ozarkian]

IMO this is an activity that doesn't rise to the level where it can accurately be called racing.

Ain't that the truth.

[TKGAngel]

It is called cheating.

Remember, its not cheating. Its "actions detrimental to stockcar racing." ;)

[indyfan31]

How else can they preserve that 1965 technology in it's purest form...? ;)

Your mistake was in trying to apply any sort of general logic to what is an illogical and anachronistic racing formula. If logical thought entered into it anywhere they wouldn't be running tube frame cars with pushrod engines sporting carburetors and the bodies wouldn't all be shaped the same regardless of the car model they are supposed to be loosely based on. They are selling driver personalities with WWE-type story lines and they don't want any team to have sufficient technical advantage to screw up their storyboarded races. IMO this is an activity that doesn't rise to the level where it can accurately be called racing.

oc

Oh.......I see. Well then, never mind. :)

[racer2c]

How else can they preserve that 1965 technology in it's purest form...? ;)

Your mistake was in trying to apply any sort of general logic to what is an illogical and anachronistic racing formula. If logical thought entered into it anywhere they wouldn't be running tube frame cars with pushrod engines sporting carburetors and the bodies wouldn't all be shaped the same regardless of the car model they are supposed to be loosely based on. They are selling driver personalities with WWE-type story lines and they don't want any team to have sufficient technical advantage to screw up their storyboarded races. IMO this is an activity that doesn't rise to the level where it can accurately be called racing.

oc

And yet there are numerous Southern NASCAR 'engineering' schools (some actually associated with decent universities) that teach CAD-CAM for tube frames and solid rear axles. Of course they have to justify the millions spent on today's Cup cars. Hell, the tube frames in '75 were cut with band saws where today's tubes are done with lasers and plasma cutters. And for what? They were faster back then!
NASCAR has transcended even among the open wheel click. It wasn't so many years ago that CART was neck and neck with Cup and I remember when NASCAR was nothing more than southern 'neck racing in which anyone who knew anything about racing openly mocked. Anymore, being a wine and cheese guy who appreciated thoroughbred racing is mocked by the same click.
I grew up in the south and watched more NASCAR than I want to admit and I've really just stopped letting it bother me like it used to. It is what it is, the Miller Lite of autoracing. I'll take the Pinot Noir myself with a nice hunk of Maytag and thank the racing gods that there still is an F1 and Champ Car.
Excellent post OC.

[Steve99]

(I'm a Ford headlight sticker fan myself),
ROFL

:rofl:

[Andrew Longman]

True post OC

Only thing to add is they are also making sure that wins are pretty well spread among the headlight stickers, I mean "manufacturers". That way each can say something like "Most Wins", "Scored More Points", "Most Teams in the Top 10", and "We Won Daytona"

NASCAR is a marketing organization that ensures a set return on investment for sponsors, whether it is "Goodyear, the tire that won Daytona", "The Only Fuel Fast Enough for NASCAR." or the Official ED medication of NASCAR"