A real map of the Ansan track

[cameraman]

It looks to be a file generated by D3

http://www.theracing.net/business/D3.gif

The site (http://www.theracing.net/busi-04.htm) is in korea so it may load slowly

It runs anti-clockwise

Compare to this version

http://image.paran.com/paran/champ5/2champ/03_06_img01.gif

corner angles
1. 43
2. 153
3. 85
4. 135
5. 90
6. 73
7. 13
8. 57
9. 66
10. 90
11. 78
12. 62
13. 35
14. 93
15. 56

I hope 8 does not have that wiggle in it.

[coolhand]

what will be the better passing zones, besides turn one. I think somwhere in that windy section of the bacside, but i'm no sure about the distances so its hard to tell.

[cameraman]

Then there is this site:

http://champ.paran.com/main/main.html

With an Alex Zanardi page
http://champ.paran.com/1champ/sub01_04.html

[coolhand]

they already have a pit babe photo gallery

http://album.paran.com/album_home.html?&Redirect=album&pidx=1097455&idx=53960&photoid=champ

and video page
http://champ.paran.com/2champ/sub03_02.html

[cart7]

I don't like that little squiggle in T7. I'd also make T3 more of a sweeper creating another passing zone braking into 4. I think I'd have made T14/T15 more like the Parabolica at Monza.

Gawd I'm being picky.

Nice track.

[coolhand]

I don't like that little squiggle in T7. I'd also make T3 more of a sweeper creating another passing zone braking into 4. I think I'd have made T14/T15 more like the Parabolica at Monza.

Gawd I'm being picky.

Nice track.

yep, more fast turns, somthing that is lacking in most of Champ Cars new tracks.

[Mark521]

There is now an english language page for the GP of Ansan:

http://www.ansanchampcar.co.kr/eng.html

[G.]

"Other site" is implying that the track won't be finished in time. Any idea if it is in jeopardy?

[cameraman]

The Korean sites say the track is done.
The "other site" is desperate for this race to fail.
Why that is so, only an abnormal psych specialist could determine.
:shakehead

[jonovision_man]

Uh-oh: :thumdown:

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/19796/


Just to add another twist to the results, with an announcement expected as soon as Monday that the troubled Ansan, Korea race will be cancelled

That would STINK. And if true, what does it mean for 2006, it's on the sched? Is it a case of delays that can be overcome? Anyone know any more about this?

jono

[Mark521]

Uh-oh: :thumdown:

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/19796/



That would STINK. And if true, what does it mean for 2006, it's on the sched? Is it a case of delays that can be overcome? Anyone know any more about this?

jono

The track being completed is one thing, having the funds to pay the sanctioning body is another. From the two Korean articles I found it looks like the concert promoter is having problems and MAYBE it will force the cancelation of the race (maybe the Race Korea is having money problems, etc.) Here are the articles I found:

Found this on JoongAng Daily's website:

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/2005...0090409041.html

Rock concert added to list of cancelled music shows

September 24, 2005 ¤Ñ In the latest of a string of cancellations of large music events, Seotaiji Company, the organizer of the ETPFEST international rock festival, said yesterday that it will not host the event this year because of funding problems.
Short for "Eerie Taiji People Festival," the event was to have featured top hard rock and heavy metal bands from around the world, including Seotaiji, a Korean rock icon. The festival, which would have been in its fourth year, was to have been staged in Ansan, Gyeonggi province, on Oct. 16 as a finale to the 2005 Champ Car World Series Grand Prix from Oct. 14-16. The company said it cancelled the concert because Racing Korea, the organizer of the Grand Prix, had defaulted on a promised advance.
ETPFEST is normally held in Seoul, but was scheduled for Ansan, alongside the race to promote Korean mass culture, Seotaiji Company said.
Although a cancellation notice was posted on Seotaiji Company's Web site, Racing Korea said it was "still in discussions," adding that the race was still on.
The cancellation of the ETPFEST follows the recent cancellation of an orchestral concert conducted by thecomposer Ennio Moriccone and other international events, which have raised concerns about promoters' abilities to manage large events here.

by Lee Kyong-hee, Wohn Dong-hee <wohn@joongang.co.kr>

Here is an editorial from the same Newpaper blaming the concert promoter "Seotaiji":

http://joongangdaily.joins.com/2005...0090109011.html

[EDITORIALS]How not to plan a concert

A string of major concerts long awaited by music lovers have recently been cancelled. What would have been the first concert in Korea for the internationally-acclaimed film music composer Enrico Morricone was suddenly cancelled two days before the performance. An international rock festival organized by Seotaiji ¡ª who is a symbol of independent music in Korea ¡ª was supposed to be held next month, but was also cancelled. The news probably devastated fans who had emptied their pockets to buy advance tickets.
The official explanations behind the cancellations were money problems. The promotion company for the Morricone concert was unable to provide the artist with a partial payment; it later was informed by the artist's management that because of the missed payment, Morricone had not boarded the plane to Korea. The promoter had sold about 40 percent of the tickets, which were priced as high as 350,000 won ($340), but it was unable to come up with the rest of the money. The rock festival prepared by Seotaiji Company was also cancelled due to a lack of funds.
While preparing huge international music concerts, small concert planners have relied on sponsors and cash advance payments on tickets. The problems caused from these practices are well known. In recent years, there were several cases in which an organizer had to cancel a major concert. For instance, a concert that was to feature the London Royal Philharmonic Orchestra and famous Korean pop groups such as Dongbangshingi to celebrate the 60th anniversary of Korea's independence was cancelled a week before it took place. A Busan-based concert planner preparing for a samba music festival suddenly cancelled the event and was bombarded by complaints from people who had bought advance tickets.
This is not just a domestic issue. If organizers lose credibility by trying to host foreign performance groups, other companies will be affected as well. Rumors will spread that Korean concert organizers do not keep their word.
A concert-planning specialist said the problem was caused by Korean entertainment companies who want to make big money from a single event. The success of a few large-scale performances has led new companies with no funds to jump into the market. This is ruining Korea's global reputation. We hunger for concerts planned by people who truly love culture, not money.

End Editorial

I originally posted these in the Biz forum at TF, the Official Repository of all Even Slightly bad News for Champ car (r). :D

[jonovision_man]

I originally posted these in the Biz forum at TF, the Official Repository of all Even Slightly bad News for Champ car (r). :D

That's where I found it. :) If it wasn't for it being on Speed I'd have ignored it, but sounds like it could have some legs. Checked CCF too, there's a few rumours floating around that preceded the Speed article, that's worrisome.

jono

[Mark521]

From SpeedTV.com:

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/champcar/auto/19800/

An announcement is expected this week from Champ Car cancelling the Champ Car World Series’ debut in Ansan, Korea scheduled for the weekend of October 16. A site visit last week by Champ Car officials revealed that while construction of the 1.9 street temporary circuit is virtually complete, the ancillary work leaves much – too much – to be desired. Specifically, grandstands, garages and medical facilities remain incomplete. And, as one wag suggested, most importantly, the sanctioning fee remains UN-paid . . .

Here's hoping that the Racing Korea's check arrives via overnight mail on Monday. :confused:

[chop456]

A worthwhile track in the states might get away with it. No money no racey. Absolutely the correct decision by Champ Car.

[FCYTravis]

What a shock :shakehead

[Sean O'Gorman]

Damn, and my plane tickets aren't refundable. :saywhat:

[Methanolandbrats]

What a shock :shakeheadI am equally shocked. I'm sure all four Korean Champcar Fans are now rioting in the streets.

[Racing Truth]

QUOTE=Methanolandbrats]I am equally shocked. I'm sure all four Korean Champcar Fans are now rioting in the streets.[/QUOTE]

Un-PC, but :laugh: :laugh:

[oddlycalm]

"We've got some major issues, that's all I can say at the moment," said Joe Chrnelich, the vice president of development for Champ Car. "In hindsight, we needed to have somebody over there fulltime." Uh, yes. If you are going to do business in overseas, particularly in Asia, you are going to have to have people on the ground full time. This is not new information so I'm mildly surprised that KK and company didn't. Asian business ethics routinely make Enron look like a DAR tea party by comparison.

Since this was going to be one of CCWS's big pay days I'm doubly surprised that they didn't have a boot squarely in the hind end of the promoter and track people. This is weak stuff. :thumdown:

oc

[Dr. Corkski]

I am equally shocked. I'm sure all four Korean Champcar Fans are now rioting in the streets.They must be hardcore for hardcards too. :gomer:

[jonovision_man]

Uh, yes. If you are going to do business in overseas, particularly in Asia, you are going to have to have people on the ground full time. This is not new information so I'm mildly surprised that KK and company didn't. Asian business ethics routinely make Enron look like a DAR tea party by comparison.

Since this was going to be one of CCWS's big pay days I'm doubly surprised that they didn't have a boot squarely in the hind end of the promoter and track people. This is weak stuff. :thumdown:

oc

I agree oc.

Last year was acceptable. It was their first year, they scrambled to get schedule together, may not have completely understood what was involved in getting a foreign race together, etc.

But to let it fail again? :thumdown: I just don't understand how they could do that, it's incompetence pure and simple.

It's also on the 2006 schedule. Now, there's asphalt down, fencing up, somebody's spent money on this track. Can it possibly fail again? It's going to have a cloud over it right up to the day it's run IMO. :shakehead

jono

[cameraman]

I don't see why anyone would be surprized...
http://www.theracing.net/business/D3.gif

You will note that the real map has no stands, paddock or medical facilities

:gomer:

[jonovision_man]

So... no official announcement? :saywhat:

[KLang]

So... no official announcement? :saywhat:

From Champ Car:

Preparations are continuing for the Ansan Champ Car Grand Prix as workers prepare the facility for our 750 horsepower Champ Cars.

Construction on the race track is nearing completion and workers are continuing to build the infrastructure needed to put on Champ Car's three-day festivals of speed. Local promoter The Racing Korea, continues to get ready for the event, preparing the Ansan facility for Champ Car's visit on October 16.



link (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9708)

It seems to be a go at this point.

[jonovision_man]

From Champ Car:


link (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9708)

It seems to be a go at this point.

Take a look at those pictures... fencing and garages seem done, but grandstands are MIA. :saywhat:

jono

[tllips]

Take a look at those pictures... fencing and garages seem done, but grandstands are MIA. :saywhat:

jono


Probably going to be temporary grandstands this year. How long does it take to put those up? My guess is only a week or so max.

Given the fact that SpeedTV had the original cancellation story, I think there still may be some embers smoldering under that smoke.

[KLang]

Take a look at those pictures... fencing and garages seem done, but grandstands are MIA. :saywhat:


Perhaps the Korean fans prefer to stand? ;)

[jonovision_man]

Probably going to be temporary grandstands this year. How long does it take to put those up? My guess is only a week or so max.

Given the fact that SpeedTV had the original cancellation story, I think there still may be some embers smoldering under that smoke.

Someone on TF thought there maybe an intentional leak to get the promoter's attention... maybe the sanctioning fee was paid yesterday morning or something. Reasonable theory, Robin and Phillips are usually in-the-loop, for them both to get it wrong suggests they were either being fed improper info or something changed.

I assume the grandstands go up pretty quick, although they're typically up well in advance of the event here (Toronto).

jono

[Gnam]

Perhaps the Korean fans prefer to stand? ;)
http://www.asienguiden.se/thailand/bangkok/chinese_new_year/bilder/chinese_acrobats.jpg

[Sean O'Gorman]

Well, it looks like at least the track is ready for Formula Drift:

http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/84007_ans.jpg

[Methanolandbrats]

Perhaps the Korean fans prefer to stand? ;)
Maybe they will bring their own rawn chairs and do the Road America thing, only it's in Korea, not in the middle of nowhere.Thank goodness for that.

[Gnam]

rawn chairs
:p
http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/2002/Sep-27-Fri-2002/photos/chairs.jpg

[Dr. Corkski]

Champ Car mad Koreans fighting their way to the ticket box office. :gomer:

http://www.hotpolitics.com/SQUIRMS/S3_29_03_files/image011.jpg

[NismoZ]

Hey, reminds me of Elkhart Lake, '63!

[Gnam]

^^ :D :laugh: That's Super good.

[TedN]

SCHEDULE: This is the real mystery. Will Ansan really happen? There’s been a lot in the media about whether or not this race is on or not. Deep Throttle has learned that the band scheduled to play at the end of the race weekend has cancelled its appearance due to non payment by the promoter – Racing Korea. Doesn’t look good.


Link (http://www.deepthrottle.com/Thoughts/05_lasvegas_thoughts.shtml)

Ted

:(

[TKGAngel]

So what we have right now is a definite possibility of a firm maybe that this race is going to happen? Nice.

[KLang]

Courtesy of AR1, tickets available here: http://www.ticketlink.co.kr/

Anyone read Korean? :gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

Courtesy of AR1, tickets available here: http://www.ticketlink.co.kr/

Anyone read Korean? :gomer:

Korean pop-ups..............cool!

[jonovision_man]

It's gone officially.

Pathetic IMO. :shakehead

I know most people on this planet won't notice, but they don't exactly look like crack businessmen on this one.

Bad enough they're cancelling a race they already cancelled once, but the way they handled it this year? :thumdown:

I'm especially pissed about that bogus press release a few days ago "Local promoter The Racing Korea, continues to get ready for the event, preparing the Ansan facility for Champ Car's visit on October 16."

2 days later it's scratched? :saywhat:

jono

[Mike Lawler]

[QUOTE=jonovision_man]It's gone officially.

Yep.........

CHAMP CAR WORLD SERIES ANNOUNCES POSTPONEMENT OF 2005 EVENT IN ANSAN, SOUTH KOREA, INAUGURAL RACE TO BE PART OF 2006 SCHEDULE

[trauma1]

why the f does this happen every year, just one year i's like to see the entire schedule run, that's all , :flame:

[oddlycalm]

It's gone officially. And yet we have the earthshattering news that the great Fabrizio del Monte will be in the HVM car for the rest of the season... :gomer:

oc

[jonovision_man]

And yet we have the earthshattering news that the great Fabrizio del Monte will be in the HVM car for the rest of the season... :gomer:

oc

LOL. :)

Notice that "Next Up" now says Australia... so they were quick on updating that one, but the news release didn't make it on their site?

At least they finally got rid of the "everything on track in Ansan" story. :rolleyes:

jono

[devilmaster]

Notice that "Next Up" now says Australia... so they were quick on updating that one, but the news release didn't make it on their site?
jono

Its there....

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9713

[KLang]

Well that is too bad. At least Chrnelich already said they realize they need someone over there full time to get things nailed down. Lesson learned. Hopefully they can get their act together for next year. The track looks pretty good.

[Mike Lawler]

Well that is too bad. At least Chrnelich already said they realize they need someone over there full time to get things nailed down. Lesson learned. Hopefully they can get their act together for next year. The track looks pretty good.






I agree, but the overall problem is $$$$$$$

[Methanolandbrats]

Well, since tens of thousands of hungry Champcar Fanatics won't be descending on Ansan, at least all the stray dogs in the area can relax.

[Dr. Corkski]

Well, at least the refeund process will be as easy as 1-2-3. :laugh:

[TravelGal]

^^^ and

^^^
^^^

You two guys. Not PC but :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Dirty Sanchez]

no worries,,,, its a rebuilding year,,, again :laugh:

[Ankf00]

new press release: Bob Loblaw announced as the new CCWS East Asian Operations Director.

[cameraman]

This press conference transcript is very interesting reading.

Press Conference (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9714)


The elements more specifically that caused the deferment decision today were: A) operational preparedness on the part of the promoter TRK; and secondarily, some of their lack of adherence to our contract terms.

A while back, as some of you probably have learned, the general manager for TRK had been removed by the investors and at the request of the mayor because the performance was not keeping pace with the demands of the event. After the removal of the GM, there was a lot of scurrying around to try to find a replacement, and unfortunately it cost the promoter a lot of valuable time. So that is probably the single biggest issue.

And more mystery sponsors


... even though this is not public, there are some very, very major sponsors in the wings here waiting to come on board. They do want to see the promoter situation sift its way out, if you will, but when we step forward with those names, I think people are going to have a renewed sense of confidence on the progress made there.

That should keep the speculation wheels a turnin'


And the race is postponed to next fall on the previously announced date.


.

[cart7]

Next fall, well, if they can afford a few guys to toss some grass seed around maybe those lucky Korean spectators might have some grass to lay their blankets on.

I can see the midway brimming with very major sponsors now. :gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

"... even though this is not public, there are some very, very major sponsors in the wings here waiting to come on board. They do want to see the promoter situation sift its way out, if you will, but when we step forward with those names, I think people are going to have a renewed sense of confidence on the progress made there."

That is bullsheet. This disaster does more to scare away current sponsors than it does to attract new sponsors. The fellas are fighting the evil one and trying to save Champcar Tradition, but this crap is a dead end. They have to secure RA, Mid-Ohio and an oval or two NOW. With the IRL on the ropes, this is the chance to deliver the death blow and rebuild North American Open-Wheel Racing. Get over the bad blood, the "sanction fee" crap and ego problems. Get it done.

[nrc]

They have to secure RA, Mid-Ohio and an oval or two NOW. With the IRL on the ropes, this is the chance to deliver the death blow and rebuild North American Open-Wheel Racing. Get over the bad blood, the "sanction fee" crap and ego problems. Get it done.

"'Sanction fee' crap." Heh. Heh heh.

I would bet that Ansan has been cancelled because they haven't paid the up front portion of their "sanction fee crap". When Road America or Mid Ohio are ready to write that check I'm sure Champ car will be happy to show up.

Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Portland and Cleveland. Those are the loss leaders. That's a quarter of the schedule subsidized for the benefit of the American market. The notion that running at Road America would be a death blow to the IRL is as stupid as the lemming notion that a few IRL road races were going to kill Champ car.

The IRL exists because Tony George wishes it to exist and he has the money to make it happen. It will continue to exist as long as both those things are true.

[CART T. Katz]

Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Portland and Cleveland. Those are the loss leaders. That's a quarter of the schedule subsidized for the benefit of the American market. The notion that running at Road America would be a death blow to the IRL is as stupid as the lemming notion that a few IRL road races were going to kill Champ car.

this is exactly the reason why champcar is going global and i have no problems with that whatsoever.

the american market has shown that they don't want champcar or that the promoters don't want champcar and are unwilling to put up any effort if they have champcar. in this time of survival, we need all the cashgrabs that we can get our hands on. why a hardcore fanatical base doesn't get this simple a concept boggles the mind.

i do agree on adding more ovals though. i think that the superspeedways would do well for the american market because it would be something different; no pack racing, big speeds, drivers punting each other out of the way (:rolleyes: :p) , fun for the whole family!

[jonovision_man]

new press release: Bob Loblaw announced as the new CCWS East Asian Operations Director.

Bob Loblaw? Pronounced "blah blah blah"?

Sounds like the press conference... :D

jono

[Methanolandbrats]

"'Sanction fee' crap." Heh. Heh heh.

I would bet that Ansan has been cancelled because they haven't paid the up front portion of their "sanction fee crap". When Road America or Mid Ohio are ready to write that check I'm sure Champ car will be happy to show up.

Milwaukee, Las Vegas, Portland and Cleveland. Those are the loss leaders. That's a quarter of the schedule subsidized for the benefit of the American market. The notion that running at Road America would be a death blow to the IRL is as stupid as the lemming notion that a few IRL road races were going to kill Champ car.

The IRL exists because Tony George wishes it to exist and he has the money to make it happen. It will continue to exist as long as both those things are true. Ya, IRL will exist as long as FTG is alive, even if it's a one race series. Thanks a bunch for clearing that up :rolleyes: That's not the point. The idea is to rebuild the American Fan base. Screwing around in Korea, Botswana or whereever the hell else they go pretending to be F1 will NEVER work. Secure some traditional tracks, end the political ******** and uncertainty and sponsors and fans will come back. The only "stupid" part is that most Champcar fans don't understand this. What killed traditional tracks was political squabbling, people don't take vacations and travel to political debates. Major sponsors do not sign longterm contracts if they don't know whether the races will be held or not.

[jonovision_man]

That's not the point. The idea is to rebuild the American Fan base. Screwing around in Korea, Botswana or whereever the hell else they go pretending to be F1 will NEVER work. Secure some traditional tracks, end the political ******** and uncertainty and sponsors and fans will come back. The only "stupid" part is that most Champcar fans don't understand this. What killed traditional tracks was political squabbling, people don't take vacations and travel to political debates. Major sponsors do not sign longterm contracts if they don't know whether the races will be held or not.

You say it will never work, but Australia has been one of the jewels in CC's crown, and that's a country with an F1 race to compete with.

There are many countries on this planet and F1 will run at most 20 races in a season, and even that isn't a certainty. That leaves a lot of places that could easily accomidate a professional OW race who either can't afford or can't land F1.

Not only that, is 1 F1 race per year enough? Probably not for most countries...

If they're willing to foot the bill to get CC over there, I say go for it.

jono

[NismoZ]

Sure it's a rebuilding year...3 to go! See you in Korea! :)

[KLang]

The only "stupid" part is that most Champcar fans don't understand this. What killed traditional tracks was political squabbling, people don't take vacations and travel to political debates. Major sponsors do not sign longterm contracts if they don't know whether the races will be held or not.

This 'stupid' fan doesn't see the sense in going to RA if the track won't put forward any effort to get the fans back. As a local, perhaps you should work towards a change in management at the track?