View Full Version : New Chassis Announcement Tomorrow?
Andrew Longman
10-10-05, 04:19 PM
At another site there is talk of a CCWS press conference for 1 pm tomorrow.
Chassis debut?
GOFAST1
10-10-05, 04:37 PM
Finally,can't wait.I'm so hungry for it. :thumbup:
theunions
10-10-05, 05:11 PM
The schedule for the press conference is not conjecture. Chassis announcement or not, it will be "a major announcement concerning the future direction of the Champ Car World Series and the Bridgestone Presents The Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford."
Their going to adopt the new Silver Crown car :gomer:
Their going to adopt the new Silver Crown car :gomer:
Engines in front, baby. That'll fix everything! :gomer:
Their going to adopt the new Silver Crown car :gomer:
Say what you want about those cars, but they would have been able to race in the snow at Nazareth.
Interestingly, the IRL put out a press release today announcing that Panoz and Dallara would be supplying chassis for their series in 2006. Did they put that out because Panoz is going to supply ChampCars in 2007, and they wanted to nip any speculation about an early exit in the bud?
Their going to adopt the new Silver Crown car :gomer:http://jimmyjeep.50megs.com/606mm.jpg
Sweeeeeet! :cry:
Their going to adopt the new Silver Crown car :gomer:
How about a Beast chassis with a new 7 litre Roush/Cosworth engine?
Rocketdoc
10-10-05, 09:04 PM
http://jimmyjeep.50megs.com/606mm.jpg
Sweeeeeet! :cry:
Bad-ass looking rig.
racer2c
10-10-05, 09:10 PM
Maybe Danika's coming over to our side? She's so dreamy. BLAH! :p
I shall dutifully hang on to my socks tomorrow. :D
-Kevin
Hmm... possible topics for tomorrows announcement.
1. Maybe announcing the long anticipated Anson Korea race will finally happen in 2006?
2. The proposed Philly track layout is coming along very well and is very San Joseish?
3. Litigants named in the big lawsuit?
4. A 3 minute standup routine by Cedric followed by Paul Tracy reaffirming his Champcar loyalty as he explains how he had to turn down Childress to follow his heart?
5. Panoz is announced as the next chassis builder and a photo rendition of the car is unveiled that looks strikingly like this?
http://www.indyracing.com/drivers/photos/rbriscoe_car.jpg
From Indy Star (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051011/SPORTS01/510110435/1052)
Ted
From Indy Star (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051011/SPORTS01/510110435/1052)
Ted
The Panoz-supplied Champ Car will be slightly smaller in length and width and will weigh about 165 pounds less than the current car.
Cosworth, which last year was purchased by Champ Car owners Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe, will continue with turbocharged V8 engines. The 2.65-liter powerplant will be tuned to produce an additional 25 horsepower over the current model. It sounds like it has potential.
trauma1
10-11-05, 08:45 AM
nothing wrong with Panoz getting the contract, i have doubts with LOLA suppling all those chassis to A1, and if they can keep up with supplying 2 series with 50 to 60 chassis, the EARL only rule with Panoz is a dead issue with Panoz they only supply 2 or 3 teams with chassis in EARL , what's better 30 or 40 chassis in ccws or 5 or 6 in earl a no bainer, plus they will do a good job, it;s the EARL specs that make the crapwafons what they are, that rear end and lying down seating postition
I'm not getting the picture, for some reason.
CCWS is going with Panoz cars, owned by Don Panoz.
CCWS is teaming with the Daytona Prototypes at Long Beach, DP's owned by the France cartel.
Panoz owns ALMS.
Panoz cars in the IRL
KK owns Cosworth, Chevy's IRL bullit.
Anyone care to put this jig-saw picture together for a clear picture?
Feel free to add more pieces to this puzzle, I know a lot has left my memory.
Kelvis
racer2c
10-11-05, 09:01 AM
I'm not getting the picture, for some reason.
CCWS is going with Panoz cars, owned by Don Panoz.
CCWS is teaming with the Daytona Prototypes at Long Beach, DP's owned by the France cartel.
Panoz owns ALMS.
Panoz cars in the IRL
KK owns Cosworth, Chevy's IRL bullit.
Anyone care to put this jig-saw picture together for a clear picture?
Feel free to add more pieces to this puzzle, I know a lot has left my memory.
Kelvis
Whats that old saying? Something about business and strange bedfellows? ;)
pferrf1
10-11-05, 10:15 AM
I'd expect to start seeing more cosworths on the GA & ALMS grid.
Accipiter
10-11-05, 10:54 AM
I'm not getting the picture, for some reason.
CCWS is going with Panoz cars, owned by Don Panoz.
CCWS is teaming with the Daytona Prototypes at Long Beach, DP's owned by the France cartel.
Panoz owns ALMS.
Panoz cars in the IRL
KK owns Cosworth, Chevy's IRL bullit.
Anyone care to put this jig-saw picture together for a clear picture?
Feel free to add more pieces to this puzzle, I know a lot has left my memory.
Kelvis
The picture is that Champ Car, Grand Am, and Panoz are all just doing what is best for their buisness irregardless of political consideriations. The only one apparently not thinking that way is Tony George. Which is great for people who's political considerations would make them enjoy watching him run his buisness into the ground.
Sean O'Gorman
10-11-05, 11:20 AM
I don't see what the big deal is, unless you buy into that whole Champ Car/ALMS allies vs. evil NASCAR/IRL enemies crap that Mark C was constantly peddling back in '02. :rolleyes:
Gangrel
10-11-05, 11:23 AM
The picture is that Champ Car, Grand Am, and Panoz are all just doing what is best for their buisness irregardless of political consideriations. The only one apparently not thinking that way is Tony George. Which is great for people who's political considerations would make them enjoy watching him run his buisness into the ground.
I seem to remember another saying....one with origins dating back to the Shogunate in Japan....something about friends close and enemies closer...
Funny, I see all these CC/Panoz strings running through the Tony George empire, and all I can think about is what happens when those strings get pulled at strategic points in time...
There are dependancies there, but it looks to me like those dependancies are grossly one-way, and that way is not in the EARL's favor. This could be fun to watch...just need some popcorn.
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20051011P_0001.jpg
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20051011P_0004.jpg
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20051011P_0003.jpg
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20051011P_0002.jpg
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9727
Innovation has always been a hallmark of the Bridgestone Presents the Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford. From the front-engine roadster to today's sleek turbocharged machines, Champ Cars have always tested the mettle of the world's greatest drivers. Today, Champ Car announces its latest evolution in chassis design as the new Panoz DP01 Built by Élan Motorsports Technologies will be paired with a turbo-charged Ford-Cosworth engine on every Champ Car beginning with the 2007 season.
The new chassis and engine combination reflects the ongoing commitment by the Champ Car World Series, its owners, management and manufacturers to the long-term health and success of the series. The combination ensures a level playing field for every team and driver in the Champ Car World Series, while providing a stable technology and rules package for the future of Champ Car.
"We are extremely excited about the potential that the Panoz DP01 chassis built by Élan Motorsports Technologies and the Ford-Cosworth engine bring to the Champ Car World Series," said Champ Car President Steve Johnson. "This combination benefits Champ Car not only by providing a strong package for our current teams, but also by giving prospective teams an opportunity to be competitive right away. This package is just another indication of the progress the series has made since Kevin Kalkhoven, Jerry Forsythe and Paul Gentilozzi purchased it in 2004."
The new Panoz DP01 takes much of its look from the current Champ Car chassis, keeping alive the style that has made the series a favorite of racing fans around the globe. But the cutting-edge technology designed into the package incorporates many new aerodynamic features that make this car better suited to the urban race tracks which host Champ Car's highly successful three-day festivals of speed. The design will also lead to more competitive racing on the permanent road courses and ovals that mark the Champ Car World Series as the most diverse racing series in the world. The Panoz DP01 is smaller than the current Champ Car in both length and width and weighs 165 pounds less than the current machine, providing a more nimble and quicker machine that will put driver skills at a premium.
The aerodynamic changes on the new chassis will allow for more passing via smaller wings and bigger tunnels which will create less turbulence for cars in traffic. Another advantage is the addition of an on-board starter which will allow for less yellow-flag time during events. The new design also features safety innovations that include upgrades to the head surround and seat back areas as well as increased leg padding. The design also incorporates a collapsible steering column, new side intrusion panels and a two-stage nose crush and a rear crash structure for oval events.
"We are extremely enthusiastic and proud to be selected as the exclusive builder of the next generation Champ Car," said David Bowes, CEO Élan Motorsports Technologies. "At the outset of the process, Champ Car sought RFPs from seven manufacturers. After an exhaustive analysis, Champ Car has recognized not only the technical capabilities but also the unprecedented service, quality and accessibility that can only be offered by the leading North American based organization. We are looking forward to working with Champ Car officials to build a state of the art race car of which everyone will be proud."
Paired with the Panoz DP01 Built by Élan Motorsports Technologies will be the next generation of the fabled turbocharged Ford-Cosworth V8 engine. The 2.65-liter powerplant will feature the proven reliability of the engines which are currently built to perform in race conditions for 1,200 miles and will maintain the unique high-pitched engine note that sets Champ Cars apart.
"We are looking forward to continuing our partnership with the Champ Car World Series and are excited with the possibilities that this new package presents," said Cosworth Vice President Ian Bisco. "We have had great success with the XFE engine over the last three seasons, building a strong powerplant that has shown equality in performance and tremendous reliability, and we expect to have even greater successes with Champ Car in the years to come."
-more-
New Chassis and Engine Package Page 2
The 2007 package is also designed to reduce operating costs for both present and future Champ Car teams. A new rolling chassis will cost approximately 35 percent less than the current car while the costs of spare parts are expected to yield a savings to teams of nearly 50 percent. The design also allows Champ Car to explore new technologies such as carbon brakes which will allow for even more cost savings over the life of the car.
"The reduction in cost of the Panoz DP01 and Cosworth engine will benefit Champ Car's teams immensely," said Tony Cotman, Champ Car vice president of operations. "The design and cost will keep our current teams in the series but will also attract new teams to the series. Combined with the reduced cost, the new design also makes the Champ Car World Series even more of a driver's series. The lighter, smaller car means teams will rely even more on the drivers to achieve maximum performance."
The Champ Car World Series features some of the greatest race car drivers in the world competing in the most diverse and exciting series in the world. Champions Sebastien Bourdais, Jimmy Vasser, Cristiano da Matta and Canadian Paul Tracy along with 2004 Roshfrans Rookie of the Year A. J. Allmendinger, Oriol Servia and Alex Tagliani are among the drivers who battle for the Vanderbilt Cup, which is awarded to the winner of the Bridgestone Presents the Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford. The title is contested on oval circuits, temporary street circuits and permanent road courses.
Accipiter
10-11-05, 11:51 AM
I wonder who is building the gearbox?
The thing about this story thatm makes me most happy:
"Another advantage is the addition of an on-board starter which will allow for less yellow-flag time during events." :D
"Another advantage is the addition of an on-board starter which will allow for less yellow-flag time during events." :D
That is a major bonus and a big surprise. :thumbup:
I don't see ANY downside to the new package. :)
Another advantage is the addition of an on-board starter which will allow for less yellow-flag time during events.
And it is still 165lbs lighter! :thumbup:
Looks nice. :thumbup:
Plus on-board starters!
They claim a chasis cost reduction of 35% and parts reduction of 50%. I wonder why the parts will cost so much less?
racer2c
10-11-05, 12:02 PM
Grooved tires? :gomer:
Seriously though, looks good.
Damn, this is exciting! :thumbup:
extramundane
10-11-05, 12:04 PM
Crapwagon :gomer: :gomer: :gomer:
jonovision_man
10-11-05, 12:05 PM
Grooved tires? :gomer:
Hopefully that's only on the picture...
I love it! It looks like a Champ Car. :thumbup: And sounds like a big improvement...
Only down-side, we have to wait until 2007!
jono
It's pretty cool that they followed almost every suggestion stated here over the past couple of years:
More percentage of downforce from the tunnels
Narrower
Shorter
On board starters
Kept the turbos
More power
Looks cool
If these drawings are in any way accurate (helmet size in relation to car size), it looks similar to the Atlantics width.
It looks fantastic! :thumbup: I don't think those renderings are 100% accurate though, since the driver would need a periscope to see his rear view mirrors.
Andrew Longman
10-11-05, 12:14 PM
They did NOT go with the wider, tougher wings and sidepods that would eliminate interlocking wheels and cut tires, as they were talking about a few months back.
Not sure how I feel about that. I like the resulting safety and closer racing it would have brought, but it looked less like I think a champ car should look.
I am pleased with the design. I can be quite happy with it and quite happy with the extra teams and sponsors the lower costs should bring.
No talk about what they will limit in terms of teams developing the chassis though. Is everyone free to tweek as they please? Must they only use approved parts? Over the summer they suggested that they would freeze most of the car but open up areas a few at a time for teams to develop.
Andrew Longman
10-11-05, 12:15 PM
It's pretty cool that they followed almost every suggestion stated here over the past couple of years:
More percentage of downforce from the tunnels
Narrower
Shorter
On board starters
Kept the turbos
More power
Looks cool
Add standing starts and ChrisB would be completely thrilled :)
Has anyone seen my socks?
:D :gomer:
CART T. Katz
10-11-05, 12:46 PM
no standing starts PLEASE!!!
rosawendel
10-11-05, 12:50 PM
from speedtv.com (http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/20107/ )
Smaller in both length and width - a necessity to facilitate overtaking in the tight street circuits that currently represent the majority of Champ Car’s schedule - the Panoz chassis weighs 165 pounds (roughly one Paul Tracy) less than the Lola B2K/00 that has dominated the series since 2002.
:D :rofl: :D
two observations: no popoff valve (must be buried now), and there doesn't appear to be a shock cover, unless the whole front cowling comes off...
Looks like the nose is stuck up in the air with a couple boogers hanging out to hold the wing on.
Other that that, it's doesn't look too bad.
Hard Driver
10-11-05, 01:29 PM
Very happy with the spec.
Smaller, lighter and more power can only mean faster. :thumbup:
The whole thing went off track when they couldn't agree on an engine spec according to their own rulebook. Now the whole thing will get back on track with a nice new well thought out spec for the engine and chassis. :cool:
I hate the raised nose already. I wish they wouldn't defile the champ car look that way. :(
Unless there is some overridding aero concern that dictates the raised nose, please go back to a flat bottom line from the first bulkhead to the engine mount.
Hard Driver
10-11-05, 01:42 PM
Interestingly, the IRL put out a press release today announcing that Panoz and Dallara would be supplying chassis for their series in 2006. Did they put that out because Panoz is going to supply ChampCars in 2007, and they wanted to nip any speculation about an early exit in the bud?
Yup. So does this mean they are down to a Dallara/Honda spec series in 2007?
I hate the raised nose already. I wish they wouldn't defile the champ car look that way. :(
Unless there is some overridding aero concern that dictates the raised nose, please go back to a flat bottom line from the first bulkhead to the engine mount.
I like it. Kinda F-1-y. Looks like a bird of prey sorta. Ready to pounce. Maybe it's just me.
Plus they gotta clear the tracks in San Jose. :gomer:
All-in-all, great news. I want to know what they are doing to the engines, though.
devilmaster
10-11-05, 01:57 PM
I like it. Kinda F-1-y. Looks like a bird of prey sorta. Ready to pounce. Maybe it's just me.
Plus they gotta clear the tracks in San Jose. :gomer:
All-in-all, great news. I want to know what they are doing to the engines, though.
I'm kinda with ya pchall, but i'll hold off final judgement till I see an actual car.
They aren't doing anything to the engines - the press release talked about marrying the chassis to the 2.65L turbo..... and since KK owns cossie, is there any need to change the engine in the near future? :confused:
I read somewhere (?) that they were going to bump up the HP a little bit. Probably not really an engine change, just turning up the boost a little bit.
oddlycalm
10-11-05, 02:03 PM
They did NOT go with the wider, tougher wings and sidepods that would eliminate interlocking wheels and cut tires, as they were talking about a few months back.
Not sure how I feel about that. I like the resulting safety and closer racing it would have brought, but it looked less like I think a champ car should look. Agreed, and I too have mixed feelings. The car probably looks better for it, but we will still see plenty of tire interlock wrecks. Also, 165lbs. less weight and 25hp more will be a negligible change. The talk was more in the area of 200lbs. less and 100hp more which would have made a noticable difference. On the way upside is the onboard starter (air I assume) which will eliminate most full course cautions from the "spin and stall" incidents. This will make a big difference. :thumbup:
Although not discussed in the news release, one big hidden change is supposed to be getting the turbo out of the transaxle. Big cost savings on the car price, big cost savings for the teams when working on the car, maybe even some savings for Cosworth.
If the design does indeed prove to allow closer following than the current cars it will be a major win for everybody. :thumbup:
Nice order for Panoz, but it's a bit sad to see Lola on the outs after all these many years. I'm sure Panoz had to eat a big discount to get the business resulting in a lower price per car, but it's sad nevertheless.
oc
Andrew Longman
10-11-05, 02:16 PM
I like it. Kinda F-1-y. Looks like a bird of prey sorta. Ready to pounce. Maybe it's just me.
Plus they gotta clear the tracks in San Jose. :gomer:
All-in-all, great news. I want to know what they are doing to the engines, though.
I expect the 25 hp comes from a bit more boost and/or software tweek. Given how few problems they've had with engines I suspect they feel they could squeeze more out of them between 1200 mile rebuilds.
On another note, anyone have an opinion on how Haas is taking this. Over at TF the knock with the hardcore is this will cause him to take his Lolas and team to the IRL.
Personally I see that in the not happening category. I don't know his business, but I would see him making more money selling sponsorship for his team in a vibrant, competitive series than selling chassis in a dying series (either IRL or CCWS).
This is a big deal in attracting new teams to the series and keeping the ones here. And it will greatly improve the on track product which improves things all around. I think Haas probably sees that too.
Perhaps he can become the champ car distributor for Panoz if it is that important. He was/is for Swift. ;)
I kinda doubt if Haas has been making that much off his Lola distributorship in recent years, at least not selling Champ Car cars and parts. We all know how PN feels about the earl and I think PN is probably responsible for most if not all of the NH sponsorship. Just don't see it happening.
Not suprising though that the 'braintrust' at gomerville is searching for some way to spin this in a negative light. :rolleyes:
Sean O'Gorman
10-11-05, 02:25 PM
Crapwagon :gomer: :gomer: :gomer:
Dallara Panoz POS :gomer:
Anyone else think it looks like a slightly enlarged F3 car? Not that there is anything wrong with that. It looks pretty good except for the side view, where certain parts seem to be disproportionate.
Hopefully the new chassis turns out to be very "raceable", but personally I don't believe that making the cars lighter and faster is necessarily going to make the racing better.
devilmaster
10-11-05, 02:26 PM
I expect the 25 hp comes from a bit more boost and/or software tweek. Given how few problems they've had with engines I suspect they feel they could squeeze more out of them between 1200 mile rebuilds.
On another note, anyone have an opinion on how Haas is taking this. Over at TF the knock with the hardcore is this will cause him to take his Lolas and team to the IRL.
Personally I see that in the not happening category. I don't know his business, but I would see him making more money selling sponsorship for his team in a vibrant, competitive series than selling chassis in a dying series (either IRL or CCWS).
This is a big deal in attracting new teams to the series and keeping the ones here. And it will greatly improve the on track product which improves things all around. I think Haas probably sees that too.
Perhaps he can become the champ car distributor for Panoz if it is that important. He was/is for Swift. ;)
Who says in a couple years that Lola couldn't come back with their version on the design? Its obvious that one chassis for now will help new teams come in and give them a chance to be competitive. But i can see, once everyone gets a year or two under the panoz, that there could be room for Lola.
Nobody at CC ever said Lola will be the sole chassis supplier the last couple years. It happened because the company died, Walker bought out the parts and other goodies, but that loss of R&D time and expertise killed the competitiveness of the Reynard.
One chassis builder is good for now, but nowhere have I seen the quote 'They will be the sole supplier for X number of years...'
Paired with the Panoz DP01 Built by Élan Motorsports Technologies will be the next generation of the fabled turbocharged Ford-Cosworth V8 engine.Just wondering what that means, is all. The twin turbo rumor, turbo out of transaxle, other?
Dallara Panoz POS :gomer:
In many ways I wish they had gone with Dallara, the meltdown would have been phenomenal.
I hate the raised nose already. I wish they wouldn't defile the champ car look that way. :(
Unless there is some overridding aero concern that dictates the raised nose, please go back to a flat bottom line from the first bulkhead to the engine mount.
The overriding concern may be getting more flow to the undertray. A raised nose may do this, and they wanted more undertray downforce.
The overriding concern may be getting more flow to the undertray. A raised nose may do this, and they wanted more undertray downforce.
It for the dual front crash zones.
SCOT ELKINS: Some of the visual aspects may be similar. Our nose is very much raised in the air now. That's twofold. We've done that because we've increased the safety requirements for this car. It has a two-stage nose crush as opposed to the single stage it used to have. It has to be designed differently there.
Full transcript of Q&A here (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9729)
Full transcript of Q&A here (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9729)
The transcript also addresses the interlocking wheels issue:
We are thinking of reducing the track by three inches each side, but keep the side parts about the same width, because that will help to avoid some of the wheel interlocking issues that might occur at the moment.
Notice that the first two press questions are about the earl? :mad:
Jeez, who are the f***nuts asking the stupid questions? :confused: :shakehead
Andrew Longman
10-11-05, 04:00 PM
Jeez, who are the f***nuts asking the stupid questions? :confused: :shakehead
Sure, but the answers were crisp and spot on.
Can't say that if a third IRL Q had come the CC guys would have become a bit pissed
"STEVE JOHNSON: That's a totally different car that would be running in the Indy 500. Unless the rules would change for the Indy 500, this is not the chassis for the Indy 500." :rofl:
Dr. Corkski
10-11-05, 04:15 PM
Dallara Panoz POS :gomer:
Anyone else think it looks like a slightly enlarged F3 car? Not that there is anything wrong with that. It looks pretty good except for the side view, where certain parts seem to be disproportionate.All it's missing is the air intake. :gomer:
Looks more like a GP2 car on roids.
Jeez, who are the f***nuts asking the stupid questions? :confused: :shakehead
I dunno... :confused:
Curt Cave-in, MarkC, local Indy gomermediagoons??? :gomer:
"STEVE JOHNSON: That's a totally different car that would be running in the Indy 500. Unless the rules would change for the Indy 500, this is not the chassis for the Indy 500." :rofl:
That was amusing, as was this:
Q. Do you have a specific type of gearbox in mind in terms of the qualities that the box will present?
SCOT ELKINS: It's going to be very similar to the current gearbox. It will be a six-speed sequential. It will be mounted in the same location that it is now, the same direction that it is now. The only requirement we have is that it does have a minimum weight requirement.
Ed_Severson
10-11-05, 05:01 PM
two observations: no popoff valve (must be buried now)
We're not going to have pop-off valves beyond 2006.
They don't want the pop-off valve to malfunction and put any team at an unfair advantage or disadvantage because of a part which is issued by Champ Car. Since the entire functionality of the pop-off valve can be accomplished electronically through the ECU, they're getting rid of it altogether and redesigning the plenum on top of the engine for 2007.
GOFAST1
10-11-05, 05:37 PM
FASTER!!! That's all I need to know. :thumbup:
Andrew Longman
10-11-05, 05:42 PM
We're not going to have pop-off valves beyond 2006.
They don't want the pop-off valve to malfunction and put any team at an unfair advantage or disadvantage because of a part which is issued by Champ Car. Since the entire functionality of the pop-off valve can be accomplished electronically through the ECU, they're getting rid of it altogether and redesigning the plenum on top of the engine for 2007.
I guess I don't understand how the plenum works. How do you control the density and velocity of air entering the intake throughwith the ECU? I would hope the answer is not to interrupt the spark if the boost goes over a set limit. A better answer would seem to be just having a smaller, spec turbo.
I agree though that given the few but persistant problems with the popoffs over the years, taking them away removes one more variable among teams.
I guess I don't understand how the plenum works. How do you control the density and velocity of air entering the intake throughwith the ECU?
They already have an ECU controlled wastegate that manages boost. The pop-off valve is not the boost control, it's an anti-cheat device that opens if the maximum pressure is exceeded. Since Cosworth controls all of that it's really not necessary.
Anteater
10-11-05, 06:15 PM
It's a pretty racecar, although I'm not sure about that raised nose (too F1 for my taste).
Rocketdoc
10-11-05, 06:16 PM
They already have an ECU controlled wastegate that manages boost. The pop-off valve is not the boost control, it's an anti-cheat device that opens if the maximum pressure is exceeded. Since Cosworth controls all of that it's really not necessary.
I was going to jump in, but you said it better than I would have.
Ed_Severson
10-11-05, 06:19 PM
Looks like nrc beat me to it. The pop-off valve used these days is just a glorified alarm system, which can be managed by the ECU -- it's the wastegate which controls air flow through the intake.
Andrew Longman
10-11-05, 06:31 PM
NRC and Ed, Got it. I forgot all about the wastegate in the system. Of course.
Thanks
coolhand
10-11-05, 06:44 PM
I dont like it, its faster (which is good), but asthetically...
The raised nose, the small wheels and big tires, the funky read wing, the F1 copycat front wing. all points towards the fact that the series wants to become F1 :thumdown: :thumdown:
It looks like a GP2 car, I am happy its faster, but its not disqingishable enough for me
disapointment here on the looks department. And it has nothing to do with Panoz, i am sure they make a great car.
formulaben
10-11-05, 06:59 PM
I would have preferred a raised nose similar to the 1992 Williams F1 car. It was much more aesthetically pleasing and safer than the pointy noses of current F1 design.
Steve99
10-11-05, 07:36 PM
Jeez, who are the f***nuts asking the stupid questions? :confused: :shakehead
I heard it was Ballard of the spIndy Star.
I'm not getting the picture, for some reason.
CCWS is going with Panoz cars, owned by Don Panoz.
CCWS is teaming with the Daytona Prototypes at Long Beach, DP's owned by the France cartel.
Panoz owns ALMS.
Panoz cars in the IRL
KK owns Cosworth, Chevy's IRL bullit.
Anyone care to put this jig-saw picture together for a clear picture?
Feel free to add more pieces to this puzzle, I know a lot has left my memory.
Kelvis
When Kalkhoven sits down with Panoz and says, "Here is what I would like to do," he'll be talking to a fellow businessman rather than an enemy.
For a spec (yuck) car, I like it. Aesthetically, the only thing I don't like is the shape of the middle part of the nose. But I think that might be the permanent fix for the Zanardi tragedy, so, ok.
On high speed ovals, the new shorter Champ Cars will lose ground to the IRL cars, but, obviously, being faster there wasn't a goal.
Better safety, nimbler, starter motors, lighter, more power, cheaper, more ground effect, less wing... :thumbup:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By200/20051011P_0001.jpg
Sweeeeeeet!!! Bravo ChampCar!!! This new car looks great! I love the raised nose, the small rollhoop, and the overall lines. I've been waiting for this for a long time... Great job!
My only suggestions would be even FATTER tires (more grip without being affected by aero.. and it looks cool) and if they went with gasoline they could use an even smaller tank and make the wheelbase even shorter. But I like this.
Where can I find specs? Overall length, width, wheelbase, tank capacity, etc???
And bring these cars to the PHILLY PARKWAY too!!!
:thumbup: Overall I like it. Not overwhelmed with the nose, but @ least it ain't a crappie nose. Too bad they won't have a chance to run faster than F1 @ Montreal in '07 (as it looks now). :(
-Kevin
Speed has a side-by-side comparison photoshop on its site, but it's not a very good one because the cars are at different angles and don't quite line up. Here is my attempt:
http://raceweather.homestead.com/files/TEMP/05_07_comparo.jpg
Opposite Lock
10-11-05, 09:38 PM
rabbit, THAT is COOL! :thumbup:
Speed has a side-by-side comparison photoshop on its site, but it's not a very good one because the cars are at different angles and don't quite line up.
Cool deal, rabbit.
Here are DP's and RM's takes on the announcement:
http://speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/20113/ (with offending image)
http://speedtv.com/commentary/20111/
-Kevin
rabbit, very cool. Thanks. :thumbup:
Let's just wait until the final product is out. It will change... slightly.
Hard Driver
10-11-05, 11:40 PM
Rabbit, you should send that to speedTV. !!!
Looks faster: 2.1 seconds at Paradise:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9728
I do think that this will make for better racing. Something to be said for ultimate high level spec series concept. It just kind of evolved from the end of the Reynard, and previous end to engine competition, but it is now official. Champcar is a spec series.
This means the chassis manufaturer can concentrate on designing the cars to maximize the racing as a whole. Kinda like having a sole tire provider is better than having a tire war. The harder tires a sole provider make less marbles and promote better racing. Well the "designed to run together cars" instead of the "designed to maximize the single car cars" should allow for better racing too.
What is now setting Champcar apart from F1, is that it is a drivers series.
racer2c
10-11-05, 11:50 PM
Say what you want about those cars, but they would have been able to race in the snow at Nazareth.
Interestingly, the IRL put out a press release today announcing that Panoz and Dallara would be supplying chassis for their series in 2006. Did they put that out because Panoz is going to supply ChampCars in 2007, and they wanted to nip any speculation about an early exit in the bud?
You were right JB. :thumbup:
coolhand
10-12-05, 01:32 AM
does the front wing look raised like the current F1 wings are? IMO i think it could be much lower and better
coolhand
10-12-05, 03:21 AM
http://raceweather.homestead.com/files/TEMP/05_07_comparo.jpg
can somone explian to me how those nifty new mirrors will work? :confused:
trauma1
10-12-05, 08:38 AM
the reason for the raised nose is for more air flow to the under trays and thus better ground effects, with a lower nose they would have to have biggeger wings front and rear and more areo, thus more air disturbance to cars in the rear and less passing
SurfaceUnits
10-12-05, 09:02 AM
The Dannical Patrick 01, what's up wit dat? :gomer:
Before we get in to ccfantasies style debates about what color the spec steering wheel should be let's not forget that these are concept drawings, not a definitive design.
racer2c
10-12-05, 11:49 AM
Before we get in to ccfantasies style debates about what color the spec steering wheel should be let's not forget that these are concept drawings, not a definitive design.
You mean the spiderweb lines on the rear view mirror and sidepod may not be on the actual car? :cry:
can somone explian to me how those nifty new mirrors will work? :confused:
A lot like these:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20050827P_0023.jpg
Separated at birth?
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20051011P_0004.jpg
http://www.champcar.com/gallery/gallery99/08portland/fighting_the_penske_demons.jpg
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By400/20051011P_0002.jpg
http://champcar.com/news99/pix/sc_n0124_99al_front480.jpg
So you're saying that the new cars will be much slower? :p
cameraman
10-12-05, 01:42 PM
Sooo you are saying Champ Car is going to run a modified Penske PC27B?
http://www.insideracingtechnology.com//Resources/penskt5.jpg
So is Al Unser going to move up from the Atlantics in 2007 to make it a matched set?
coolhand
10-12-05, 02:09 PM
A lot like these:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20050827P_0023.jpg
uhhh except look at the reletive height of the ones on the new car. the bulkhead aroun the driver is higher and those mirrors ate lower
uhhh except look at the reletive height of the ones on the new car. the bulkhead aroun the driver is higher and those mirrors ate lower
If you look closely at the sketches, the sidepod is cut away behind the mirror.
Andrew Longman
10-12-05, 03:44 PM
Looking at the Penske causes me to ask again. Any word or guesses how much teams will be allowed to "develop" the car? In May they we thinking about allowing teams to only modify one or two areas at a time, year to year as a way of containing costs and keeping it a drivers' series
If you look closely at the sketches, the sidepod is cut away behind the mirror.
Nope. Look @ the side view:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2005/By800/20051011P_0004.jpg
Ain't no way a driver can see them things as configgered in that rendering. :confused:
-Kevin
coolhand
10-12-05, 09:24 PM
I helped some people out here. the green is where it has to be to work.
http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/8463/20051011p00049gf.jpg
those high shoulders dont help
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3169/0507comparo7ri.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
unless this car has some advanced mirror system beyond our time
formulaben
10-12-05, 09:42 PM
Coolhand, your rendering presumes a vertically aligned mirror. If it were angled upward it could look backward. Having said that, I tend to agree that the mirrors are a bit optimistic in their size, if you're going to have them at all. The safety merits (and especially the sporting merits) of mirrors isn't necessarily an established fact.
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