What's with those tires?

[B3RACER1a]

I've been feeling ill for a few days, getting better. Anyways, I took it easy last night and was flipping between F1 Decade and Nascar. What is with those NASCAR tires? How many crashes were caused by blown tires? Its insane. It seems liek every race there are 10 blown tires or flat ones...if not more. Tonights race ought to be just as bad I'm guessing.

On another note, they complain about tires going down a lot too. Obviously, those tires are on the delicate side. Then why they heck to dont they try to capture of lugnuts removed during a pit stop? When the driver leaves, its a burnout right across the removed lugs....and they gotta have sharp edges after being hit by an air wrench. :saywhat:

[spinner26]

Don't have a link to the exact wording but it was said earlier in the year by Goodyear that the teams were running too low a tire pressure as well as incorrect camber, trying to "optimize" the car, thus causing the tire to wear abnormally. :saywhat:

[devilmaster]

Part of me still thinks that Goodyear just makes a crappy tire - and they don't really care to improve their manu process.

[B3RACER1a]

I bet its a combination of both. If Goodyear knows about teams running low pressures, why dont they just make the construction stronger? Many other racing tires go through much more stress than they do.

And capture those stray lugs! :p

[FailureByDesign]

I think it was Kevin Harvick that said on the radio last night that it was like racing on razor blades.He also said that the infield care center should keep stocked up on stretchers. :shakehead

[dando]

And it's no better tonight. :shakehead :shakehead

-Kevin

[spinner26]

Knock on wood, why is the 20 team not having issues? :confused:

I think all the whiney asses that have blown tires because of too low a tire pressure owe Humpy Wheeler and all the people at Lowes Motor Speedway an apology.

If it's not tire pressure why is NASCAR going through the pits checking tire pressures?

It ain't rocket science.

[racer2c]

Goodyear sucks.

[B3RACER1a]

My guess would be that some of those cars are running too low of pressure. But, its really a result of the formula. Kinda like IRL=flying cars, NASCAR=blown tires

Goodyear could also use a stronger construction. This has been a pattern now for a while, and Goddyear isnt competing with anyone, so just build a strong tire that can put up with more abuse.

[manic mechanic]

Goodyear sucks.

Werd...

I'm forced to install them through a government contract. Many around me know that my own cars run on Bridgestones, but the bureaocracy gets a "better deal" on the "badyears", so they use them 100%.

Low bid wins in the fleet tire wars! :thumdown:

manic

[devilmaster]

Werd...
manic

Yep.... I had stock Eagle LS's on my Dakota, and they didn't last 50K (and that's rotating in the spare). They always felt like the tyre was rolling over onto the sidewall when turning.

When they were done, I bought Firehawks (as CC was still using them) and the change was instantaneous. Just after i bought them I went to an empty lot and drove around for a bit, doing some turns and such, and the feel in the steering wheel was much better.

And if anyone was wondering, from that old thread a while ago where i asked your opinion for a new set of tyres, I really like the Yoko Avids.. :thumbup:

[Accipiter]

What a stupid race.


Part of me still thinks that Goodyear just makes a crappy tire - and they don't really care to improve their manu process.

All of me thinks that. Their attitude must be that they paid the France's a pretty penny to be the official tire manufacutrer of NASCAR, so why bother putting any more money than they have to into development.

[Lizzerd]

I watched the last 50 or so laps.

What did I hear after the race? Rusty Wallace, the Michael Whine-dretti of NASCAR, actually taking blame for his wreck? Holy crap! I couldn't believe my ears! Old age has finally mellowed him, I guess. Farewell tour, too. 'Bout time... :confused:

[devilmaster]

What a stupid race.



All of me thinks that. Their attitude must be that they paid the France's a pretty penny to be the official tire manufacutrer of NASCAR, so why bother putting any more money than they have to into development.

I'd pay good money to see firestone in nascar.... methinks they would kick goodyear's ass within 2 years..... meknows it'll never happen.

[pchall]

Don't have a link to the exact wording but it was said earlier in the year by Goodyear that the teams were running too low a tire pressure as well as incorrect camber, trying to "optimize" the car, thus causing the tire to wear abnormally. :saywhat:


This has been a problem for some time now in NASCAR. The teams run aggressive setups and lower than recommended pressures trying to get those tanks to handle. I would think that most of the tire failures would go away if NASCAR allowed chassis builders to create a modern suspension.

As for Goodyear building crappy tires in general, I'd have to aggree. I've had top of the line Eagles as OE on two hot VWs and the car became a lot better as soon as the Goodyears were replaced with Continentals.

[oddlycalm]

I'm surprised nobody has figured this one out, especially after the USGP mess. The pivotal information here is that the Lowes track had been diamond ground just like the IMS before the USGP. If you know the difference between new sandpaper and used sandpaper you know the entire story here. The media said that the surface was "too smooth" after diamond grinding but in reality it's exactly the opposite. While it's true that the bumps are gone the surface texture is much more aggressively abrasive which creates much more heat in the tires.

Why? With old pavement the aggregate (stones) in the mix become very smooth and worn. Diamond grinding fractures all those little pieces of aggregate and leaves them with sharp edges rather than smooth. Low tire pressure exacerbates the problem because it creates more heat, which is why the cars running the lowest pressures (Toyota) had the worst failures at the USGP and why Goodyear/NASCAR was enforcing higher tire presssures at Lowes.

Whether race tracks or freeways, you always need a skim coat of new pavement over a diamond ground surface after you take the bumps out. The only time diamond ground surfaces should be run in an "as ground" condition is if the goal is maximum traction in wet conditions such as on a bridge that is often damp due to fog or rain.

oc

[TKGAngel]

I'm surprised nobody has figured this one out, especially after the USGP mess. The pivotal information here is that the Lowes track had been diamond ground just like the IMS before the USGP. If you know the difference between new sandpaper and used sandpaper you know the entire story here. The media said that the surface was "too smooth" after diamond grinding but in reality it's exactly the opposite. While it's true that the bumps are gone the surface texture is much more aggressively abrasive which creates much more heat in the tires.

Why? With old pavement the aggregate (stones) in the mix become very smooth and worn. Diamond grinding fractures all those little pieces of aggregate and leaves them with sharp edges rather than smooth. Low tire pressure exacerbates the problem because it creates more heat, which is why the cars running the lowest pressures (Toyota) had the worst failures at the USGP and why Goodyear/NASCAR was enforcing higher tire presssures at Lowes.

Whether race tracks or freeways, you always need a skim coat of new pavement over a diamond ground surface after you take the bumps out. The only time diamond ground surfaces should be run in an "as ground" condition is if the goal is maximum traction in wet conditions such as on a bridge that is often damp due to fog or rain.

oc

So when the announcers kept throwing around the word 'levigating' as the process used to smooth the track, they really were just referring to diamond grinding? Why didn't they just call it that, instead of making up a new word.

That said, it kind of became a sick game to see how many laps it was going to take before someone had a tire blow. Interesting to note how that number kept decreasing as the nite went on.

ETA: There's an article on nascar.com about how Helton and co discussed cancelling the race after midway due to safety reasons because of the tire failures.

[NismoZ]

"100% NOT Goodyear's fault. They always get the blame because that's where the problem is, but it was not their fault. If it (blame) goes to anybody I guess it goes back to Humpy, but all he was trying to do was make the racing better for the fans and the drivers. They (Goodyear) didn't even know the second levigation had been done."-Tony Stewart on Wind Tunnel.

[devilmaster]

"100% NOT Goodyear's fault. They always get the blame because that's where the problem is, but it was not their fault. If it (blame) goes to anybody I guess it goes back to Humpy, but all he was trying to do was make the racing better for the fans and the drivers. They (Goodyear) didn't even know the second levigation had been done."-Tony Stewart on Wind Tunnel.

Ok, thats one racetrack..... Someone please ask Tony about all the other tracks.

[NismoZ]

Big heavy cars, low tire pressures (BANK it!) dial in the camber, mix it with a freshly ground surface...right , it's the TIRES! A driver or crew chief can chew up any tire ever built especially if speed becomes more important than longevity. No, I don't see Goodyear holding any Michelinesque press conferences to appologize for this one.

[devilmaster]

Big heavy cars, low tire pressures (BANK it!) dial in the camber, mix it with a freshly ground surface...right , it's the TIRES! A driver or crew chief can chew up any tire ever built especially if speed becomes more important than longevity. No, I don't see Goodyear holding any Michelinesque press conferences to appologize for this one.

Niz, this wasn't the only track to have tyre problems this year. And I'll bet not all of the other tracks that had problems all diamond ground this year too.

NASCAR had mandated a softer tyre compound for this year. Lets say that again. NASCAR had mandated a softer tyre compound for this year. They do mandate these things. Their rational as I have read it - to loosen the cars, putting more emphasis on driver ability and hopefully spread out fields.

Now, how many tracks have had tyre problems? If I were to guess, I'd say 30 to 50% of races this year. Is it teams that do agressive settings? Yes, absolutely. Teams are trying to find the greatest advantage. They are pushing the tyres over their limit - but, the tyres have too low a limit. Perhaps its the type of track? Nope, cause we see the problem at different tracks - the short ovals had em, high bank 1.5s had em, even Pocono had em. That shows that the problem was spread out across all types of ovals.

Here was an article we talked about on OC back when it came out in April. Even writers were openly talking about the problem back then. And guess what, we're still talking about it now. Yep, its just this track. :rolleyes:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=jb-tires041105&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[NismoZ]

No, of COURSE it isn't just the track..."NASCAB mandated softer compounds". Sorry, I should have added that one. You said it yourself, they're driving over the tire design limits, so blame the tire? I don't understand that reasoning. Do you think Goodyear was/is in a position to say "no" to Nascab on a suggested tire compound? My guess is Goodyear told CRASHCAR EXACTLY what might happen and the reply was something like "We'll take that risk!" :rolleyes: I wish I was as certain as YOU seem to be as to who to blame for that joke of a "race" but do you think maybe Tony Stewart (and others) may have a part in that blame what with all the talk about stretchers, ambulances and life insurance policies BEFORE the race even started? All I can say for sure is I'm less inclined to blame Goodyear for it's part in causing this to happen than I am the whole CABCAR organization, including the teams and drivers. (fini)

[B3RACER1a]

First off, I think we can toos out anything the drivers say. Anything they say positive on anything on the the car, they get a check.

Ok, everyone knows the track had been repaved, and then ground down. I remember seeing it on Speed News a long while ago.

Somehow, Goodyear didnt know about the track? :rolleyes:

Its the fault of the formula AND the tires. Problems have been had everywhere else. Extreme setups are a result of trying to go fast with a crappy formula.

The tires can be built better too, I'm sure.

[Heeltoe]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/20224/

[mapguy]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/20224/

I couldn't get past this BS.


Tony Stewart and Greg Biffle, two of the top three drivers in points and two of the most skilled racers you will ever see

[Accipiter]

Big heavy cars, low tire pressures (BANK it!) dial in the camber, mix it with a freshly ground surface...right , it's the TIRES! A driver or crew chief can chew up any tire ever built especially if speed becomes more important than longevity. No, I don't see Goodyear holding any Michelinesque press conferences to appologize for this one.


That's just becuase Goodyear didn't have another tire manufacturer to try to blame their mistakes on.