Miller - Examining Honda's .1RL Commitment

[Chitowncartfreak]

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/20296/

Enjoy!

[Don Quixote]

I wonder how many engines Honda will have to give away to reach 33 next May?

[NismoZ]

I wrote about Clarke's visit to KK in Vegas that "He wouldn't have the guts" to ask CC to drop it's turbo and have Cosworth compete with Honda in a NA spec. He did. :rolleyes: Notice how short the visit was?

[Methanolandbrats]

What incredible arrogance to try and dictate terms when you're trying to beg your way into a series. FHonda. They should never be allowed back in.

[Andrew Longman]

Cotman says he told Clarke that if Honda were to come back it would be under stricter terms (no team could directly be funded, Honda would have to furnish half the field but not get to pick and chose its teams and teams would only be allowed three years with Honda) but he and Kalkhoven really didn't want to upset their competitive balance.

Looking at CCWS strategy, business model, and plan to manage the quality of their product this would have to be the only way to make it work.

But were is the up side for CCWS to do even this, let alone adopt the IRL engine spec? There is none I can think of.

Perhaps in time having multiple manufacturers pay the series, not the teams, to compete might make business sense. The series then would distribute the funds equally as the NFL does TV money. But the series has to be a lot more healthy before they can ask engine companies to pay to play and it better be alot to put of with the problems of managing competition.

[RichK]

Arrogance or not, it's all business. If Honda made sense to CC, I'm sure KK would've welcomed them back.

[Skater_36]

[QUOTE=Andrew Longman]
But were is the up side for CCWS to do even this, let alone adopt the IRL engine spec? There is none I can think of.
QUOTE]

No upside for CCWS but plenty for Honda and the IRL. If CCWS changed over to the IRL spec Honda could sell more engines and drop the cost to the IRL teams. Meanwhile it's doubtful that the IRL would let the Cosworth engine run unbadged in their series so it's a pretty uneven deal unless other consessions were going to be made.

[NismoZ]

So, can we start calling it the HRL, yet? :p (pronounced, hurl!)

[devilmaster]

So, can we start calling it the HRL, yet? :p (pronounced, hurl!)

Hey, I'm holding out for Tony to call it 'Firestone Presents the IndyCar World Series powered by Honda'.

In fact, I'll bet a pint at the Kildare on it. ;)

[NismoZ]

Yes, his praising the virtues of a single engine supplier can't be far behind. The vision lives!

[NismoZ]

Question: If CC put out a bunch of requirements for a Honda return, that Honda couldn't live with, can we infer The HRL was in no position to make any such demands and that Clarke will probably be running a race series as well as an engine shop? Uh, huh...33 equal engines, Special Ed has a chance! No WONDER Tonio snapped this up!

[theunions]

I wrote about Clarke's visit to KK in Vegas that "He wouldn't have the guts" to ask CC to drop it's turbo and have Cosworth compete with Honda in a NA spec. He did. :rolleyes:


What incredible arrogance to try and dictate terms when you're trying to beg your way into a series. FHonda. They should never be allowed back in.

Clarke has never hesitated to spew garbage out of his mouth.

I would consider allowing Honda back in. It's Clarke who specifically should NEVER be allowed back in.

[dando]

It's been a crazy few years. Cosworth bailed out Champ Car and now it's one of the best bargains ($750,000 a year to lease an ultra-reliable engine) in racing

Brian Barnhart, the IRL's chief operating officer, vowed that the IRL wouldn't make the same mistakes with Honda and Toyota that CART had. But, in retrospect, he made exactly the same mistakes and woke up one morning to find himself beholding to one engine manufacturer that's as powerful off the track as it is on it.

Providing there's anyone around to lease it, the Toyota will go for $2 million next year. Ditto for Honda, which could face supplying as many as 12-14 cars in 2006.

Tony George's recent trend has been to copy Champ Car. Get its old teams, manufacturers, tracks, go road racing and now turn to a spec engine. If Honda's current factory teams can make it without HPD's money, it could be good for the IRL.

:laugh:

-Kevin

[Accipiter]

This story makes Cotman my hero. :thumbup:

[cart7]

I've always thought of Clarke as not much more than an errand boy for the bigger wheels in Japan.

[Rocketdoc]

"HURL", I like it. The Honda Uncertainty Racing League.

The "Hurl"...excellent, and so apropos.

[Lizzerd]

Perhaps in time having multiple manufacturers pay the series, not the teams, to compete might make business sense. The series then would distribute the funds equally as the NFL does TV money. But the series has to be a lot more healthy before they can ask engine companies to pay to play and it better be alot to put of with the problems of managing competition.

That, my friiend, is one great idea.

Perhaps say, "okay, engine provider #1, you supply as many teams as you want, or to all the teams that want you, at $X per team to the series. The teams that use your engine will pay YOU $Y per car. Engine provider #2, same story..."

Let CC and the teams figure out the reciprocals to all...

[Lizzerd]

oops...

[Andrew Longman]

Question: If CC put out a bunch of requirements for a Honda return, that Honda couldn't live with, can we infer The HRL was in no position to make any such demands and that Clarke will probably be running a race series as well as an engine shop? Uh, huh...33 equal engines, Special Ed has a chance! No WONDER Tonio snapped this up!

Great point that the IRL must not be putting up the same requirements of Cotman did. I hadn't thought of that. But counter to your point, I doubt TG has either. Outsmarted again. :D

[mueber]

Honda could have done a lot to improve the outlook for open wheel by simply refusing to do business with the IRL at the soonest possibility. As usual, Clarke is talking out of both sides of his mouth while being a key culprit in keeping the IRL alive.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "If Honda's BOD got together in Tokyo and the Chairman asked, "What can we do to insure that Mark Ueber in Fort Wayne, Indiana never buys another Honda product as long as he lives,"' they couldn't have done a better job than they've done regarding the IRL and CART/Champ Car.

And please don't bore me with the part of Robin's article about Honda employees in California. Honda is already looking at other options for their engines, and everybody, including Honda, would be better off if Honda took the long view.

[Methanolandbrats]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "If Honda's BOD got together in Tokyo and the Chairman asked, "What can we do to insure that Mark Ueber in Fort Wayne, Indiana never buys another Honda product as long as he lives,"' they couldn't have done a better job than they've done regarding the IRL and CART/Champ Car.

. Exactly right. Honda has always been sleazy, but the last decade raised the bar.

[Insomniac]

Honda could have done a lot to improve the outlook for open wheel by simply refusing to do business with the IRL at the soonest possibility. As usual, Clarke is talking out of both sides of his mouth while being a key culprit in keeping the IRL alive.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "If Honda's BOD got together in Tokyo and the Chairman asked, "What can we do to insure that Mark Ueber in Fort Wayne, Indiana never buys another Honda product as long as he lives,"' they couldn't have done a better job than they've done regarding the IRL and CART/Champ Car.

And please don't bore me with the part of Robin's article about Honda employees in California. Honda is already looking at other options for their engines, and everybody, including Honda, would be better off if Honda took the long view.

Problem is Honda had nowhere to go but out of racing until they could get into NASCAR. Toyota clearly had a plan and now Honda had to choose between sitting out until it could get into NASCAR or Champ Car or stay in the IRL.

[mueber]

Problem is Honda had nowhere to go but out of racing until they could get into NASCAR. Toyota clearly had a plan and now Honda had to choose between sitting out until it could get into NASCAR or Champ Car or stay in the IRL.

Should I be crying about this?

[NismoZ]

If they want ME to (continue to) believe all that "We want/need competition" talk, then they better get a car and engine ready to kick Audi and Porsche's ass in ALMS. You can't say one thing and do another for long or...gee, people won't believe you! Following Toyota to NASCRAP would only lower my opinion of the co. further.

[Insomniac]

Should I be crying about this?

I'm not. I'm just saying they really only had 2 choices. Stay in the IRL or leave the "top tier" in NA altogether. Yes, what's best for OW is 1 OW series. But as they say, they're in the business of selling cars so they'll do what is best for them.

[Wheel-Nut]

Lifted from Jayski, take it FWIW

Menard sells engine company to...Honda? Word from England is that billionaire home improvement magnate John Menard, whose engine company has been building racing engines for Robby Gordon's #7 team, has sold his racing and engine-building shop to Honda. Does that mean Gordon will have to start looking for another engine supplier?(Yahoo Sports)(10-16-2005)




More on Robby's Engines: #7-Robby Gordon has had a rough ride of it this season, as the stock-car tour's lone owner-driver. But in a most curious twist, Honda appears to be a looming player in the game. Gordon said that John Menard, the wealthy home-improvements businessman who owns the engine-building operation in England, Menard Engineering, that supplies his Nextel Cup motors, is negotiating a sale of that division to Honda for a second Formula One program. "But it won't affect our (Cup) engines next season," Gordon said. "Menard will continue to provide the engines, and he will also be a sponsor for 13 races." The Honda-Menard deal is figured to be part of an effort by the Japanese car maker to deal with Toyota in F-1. Menard is the father of Paul Menard, who is expected to move up to a part-time Cup ride with [#15] Dale Earnhardt Inc. next season.(Winston Salem Journal)(10-24-2005)

[Sean O'Gorman]

Exactly right. Honda has always been sleazy, but the last decade raised the bar.

Weren't you just yapping in the F1 thread about how you want to see the fastest and best cars win at any object? Now you are against Honda for doing exactly that? You can't have it both ways.

[sundaydriver2]

Fonda's sleeziness has nothing to do with them making fast cars. It has everything to do with integrity and honesty. If you haven't been paying attention, it's the POS Fonda HPD that has been trying to put another racing series out of business. WTF does that have to do with building fast cars?

:shakehead