OK, what about the 5 Amigos?

[ChrisB]

Here's Yet Another merger/unification/oneseries/whatever idea... (and crosspost again to the usual places)

There's no doubt that Don Panoz is now a Player in the Indy/Champ thing. And TG still holds the Indy 500.

How about if the Amigos sell 40% of the ownership of their series to Don Panoz and TG? 20% ownership to each. 5 Amigos. 5 headed monster. Fab 5.

Don Panoz gets 100% of the chassis biz (a single supply spec chassis is IMO the best way to go, but that's another discussion) and more races move to his natural road circuits.

The concessions to TG are:
-the month of May is left open on the schedule.
-the series licenses the "IndyCar" name from IMS.
-some kind of clause to become 50/50 oval-road.

Ownership of the Speedway is not even a consideration here.. that's still all TG's property.. just as Panoz owns his tracks, and Forsythe owns whatever is his seprately. TG gets a nice reliable check every year for the "IndyCar" name... and he gets the month of May to do whatever he thinks is best for the sport. (I would hope that he would make it more like Daytona Speedweeks... but that's another discussion too) He becomes 1/5 of the vote with 4 other guys who are quite reasonable.


There it is. Comments?

[pchall]

There it is. Comments?

As long as TG is a player formula car racing in the US is doomed to the vagueries of decisions made by an idiot.

[dando]

Here's Yet Another merger/unification/oneseries/whatever idea... (and crosspost again to the usual places)

There's no doubt that Don Panoz is now a Player in the Indy/Champ thing. And TG still holds the Indy 500.

How about if the Amigos sell 40% of the ownership of their series to Don Panoz and TG? 20% ownership to each. 5 Amigos. 5 headed monster. Fab 5.

Don Panoz gets 100% of the chassis biz (a single supply spec chassis is IMO the best way to go, but that's another discussion) and more races move to his natural road circuits.

The concessions to TG are:
-the month of May is left open on the schedule.
-the series licenses the "IndyCar" name from IMS.
-some kind of clause to become 50/50 oval-road.

Ownership of the Speedway is not even a consideration here.. that's still all TG's property.. just as Panoz owns his tracks, and Forsythe owns whatever is his seprately. TG gets a nice reliable check every year for the "IndyCar" name... and he gets the month of May to do whatever he thinks is best for the sport. (I would hope that he would make it more like Daytona Speedweeks... but that's another discussion too) He becomes 1/5 of the vote with 4 other guys who are quite reasonable.


There it is. Comments?
Sounds reasonable, therefore, it won't make any sense to FTG. :shakehead My preference would be for FTG not to be involved in ownership other than his tracks. However, they'll prolly need to throw him a bone. I suspect the only way he'll understand the depth of his failure will be when the field is <33 cars next May.

-Kevin

[fourrunner]

Not sure I see the need for a 50 / 50 Oval & Road/ Street Split ... This still has to be moneymaker outside of Indy ( I'm assuming that Tony Keeps all income from Indy ) and Ovals have proven to be a money loser & injury machine for both series ... I think it should just settle on the profit makers & Fan Draws no matter what the format

I think Tony will always be a problem ... I don't trust him ... nor should KK & Company !

[Rogue Leader]

There is no reason for Tony to be involved..... He can be involved as a speedway owner... thats about it.

[Methanolandbrats]

There it is. Comments?

SSDD.

[devilmaster]

I have to agree with Meth and pchall.

Adding other people to the mix till the cows come home doesn't change anything.

As long as TG is around, he will demand he owns it all, if he's close to losing, he'll probably agree to some sort of partnership, get his **** back in order and start his attempt to control everything again. History shows this. He was offered a seat on the board. He bristled at that. He said that there should be a 3 man overseeing board to the board, with tony and 2 other people he chooses. When he didn't get that, he started his league.

It will be 'I Want It All! Waaah!' until he's completely ousted or dead.

[Andrew Longman]

Not sure what is gained here.

Panoz will be supplying chassis so long as he makes a good one at an affordable price with acceptable service. At least in as much as they show they can do it better than others come contract time. They don't have to beat another manufacturer week in, week out, year after year.

And CC can race on his tracks if it the events make business sense.

Same for Forsythe's tracks

KK and GF have secure Cosworth customers

The benefit of Indycar name is suspect at this point. They've been trying hard to establish a champcar brand

CCWS business model does not require Indy in the schedule. Would it benefit from it? Probably, but at this point the cost of spending the month of May in front of empty grandstands is hardly worth the cost.

TG has done nothing to demonstrate he is a person to be trusted enough to share ownership and leadership with. He has not shown he can bring either competence or ethics to the mix. Nothing but a single track and race date, albeit a big one.

The best business decision is to wait until TG May event can't field 33 cars and enough of the gloss is off the event that TG has to invite CC back. He may even have to pay a sanctioning fee to do it.

[Al Czervik]

TG has shown that he wants no part of any structure where he is not in charge. As long as he has the money, there will be an .1RL. Champ Car needs to stay the course. They are thisclose to making something big. Forget Tony.

[High Sided]

just leave it all just the way it is. The irl is sinking at a nice slow pace, just let em drown. champcar does not need indy but i'm guessing within 3 years indy will need champcar.

[trish]

As long as the IRL has Indy, they'll tread water. I wouldn't put a lot of hope in them going anywhere.

[Rocketdoc]

As long as TG is a player formula car racing in the US is doomed to the vagueries of decisions made by an idiot.

The truth.

[DagoFast]

What are you trying to fix? AOWR? Did you break it?

In the immortal words of the Chipster "It is what it is."

It's never going to be like it was. Let it go, Chris. Let it go.


Then chose to embrace the future.

Or not.

[TorontoWorker]

I'll just wait until the rotor shaft fails...

[Jervis Tetch 1]

The truth.
Agreed.

[stroker]

My guess is that if you pitched it to Panoz he's say something to the effect of, "I get to spend how much money and get a return of what? No thanks, I'll just sell cars and keep my money free for more profitable investments..."

[Sean O'Gorman]

My guess is that if you pitched it to Panoz he's say something to the effect of, "I get to spend how much money and get a return of what?"

He already has that, it is called the ALMS. :laugh:

[Insomniac]

You can come up with as many reasonable proposals for unification that you want. With TG in the equation, it's not goig to happen. He will never agree for anything except total control.

[Chief]

Screw Indy, screw FTG. Hey, the IRL doesn't need "reunification" it can stand on it's own, it's already got the midwest regional thing working. Panoz offers nothing but another power broker.....only 3 of the 5 amigos Chris proposed have ever done anything for OWR. Can you guess which ones they are?

[ChrisB]

Thanks guys. Here's 2 posts from OC and TF which say pretty much the same thing from opposite POV's:

CCWS fan POV: As long as TG is around, he will demand he owns it all, if he's close to losing, he'll probably agree to some sort of partnership, get his **** back in order and start his attempt to control everything again. History shows this.

IRL fan POV: What guarentee is there, once the IRL bridges are burned behind Mr. George, that the operators of the other series will not double-cross him and reinstitue the system that existed just before he created the IRL, that system being the reason that creating the IRL was so necessary.

In other words, there's lots of mistrust on *both sides* that if this were put together, sooner or later one side would try to assert excessive control over the other. Tough situation. Assuming they can never get together, I have 3 more ideas I'm curious what fans on *both sides* think...

1. In order to try to disassociate itself from any history that could be construed as Indy centric, should CCWS drop all ovals and the name "Champ car" and change it to something like "Formula A" (http://oldracingcars.com/f5000/) which was the predecessor name of SCCA F-5000? What do you CCWS fans think of this? What do you IRL fans think of this?

2. In order to try to disassociate itself from the "formula car" world, should the IRL drop RE formula cars and adopt some kind of non-aero "Modern roadster" or a revival of the USAC stock car series, using cars similar to Nascar? The point is to use cars which are closer to the experience held by sprint-car oval drivers. Again, what do you IRL fans think of this? What do you CCWS fans think of this?

3. And finally, should CCWS seriously consider running a race on Memorial Sunday, maybe even if it overlaps with the Indy 500 time slot? Once again, what do you CCWS fans think of this? What do you IRL fans think of this?

[Methanolandbrats]

1) No
2) I don't GAF what the IRL does
3) Yes, run a festival of roadracing with the ALMS and TransAm at Road America over the three day weekend. In a few years "competing" with the Indy 500 will be a non-issue because it will be on cable slotted between ice dancing and before moose hunting.

[fourrunner]

Interesting that the "IRL Fan's" opinion seems to overlook that the IRL IS what Cart was before the split .... Only Difference is the Owners are not calling the shots ... The Engine Manufacturers are definitely pretty much determining the future fate of the IRL ... And Tony finds himself more like Champ Car except he doesn't own the Engine Supplier

The 3 Amigo's set up a "Business Plan" and are Sticking To It ... Tony's current IRL bears no resemblance whatsoever to his original Idea ( No Matter what reconstructed ******** the IRL Fans say )

[Insomniac]

Thanks guys. Here's 2 posts from OC and TF which say pretty much the same thing from opposite POV's:

CCWS fan POV: As long as TG is around, he will demand he owns it all, if he's close to losing, he'll probably agree to some sort of partnership, get his **** back in order and start his attempt to control everything again. History shows this.

IRL fan POV: What guarentee is there, once the IRL bridges are burned behind Mr. George, that the operators of the other series will not double-cross him and reinstitue the system that existed just before he created the IRL, that system being the reason that creating the IRL was so necessary.

Seems like both sides are saying the same thing. TG is the reason it can't/won't happen. Just the reason why is different.

[gjc2]

In a few years "competing" with the Indy 500 will be a non-issue because it will be on cable slotted between ice dancing and before moose hunting.

Moose hunting could make very compelling television.

With their TV commercial narrated by Paul Newman Champ Car is specifically laying claim to the open wheel heritage in America. The ad uses clips from the IMS, a clip of AJ Foyt, a clip of Mario Andretti plus makes mention Long Island, the location of the original Vanderbilt Cup races.

George

[Rocketdoc]

"There it is. Comments?"

Here's some comments that after publishing them, I'm not sure that I believe them.

In an effort to generate some race car technical interest, I've started a "blog" that hopefully, will garner some input, and perhaps in some way, influence some others.

The first effort is about ChampCar and Indycar, but I plan to expand into some less politial technical stuff.

I hope someone enjoys it.

http://racecartech.blogspot.com/

[NismoZ]

50/50 on track types is the hopeful wish of fearful HRL people. They WISH a unified series would have 50% ovals but a true, unified, diverse driver's championship should be only 25% ovals. So, in a 20 race season there would be 5 oval races, split as evenly as possible among Indy, one more track of 2.0 mi, such as Michigan, a lower banked 1.5 mi track (are there any?) and a couple of one milers (including Milwaukee). Five natural road courses, 5 true street races, and 5 park/airport/street combo tracks like Cleveland, St. Pete or Monterrey. Four distinctly different track types, one champion...the best driver in the world. Oh, yeah...and each year a mega bucks bonus points "Grand Slam", series within a series would keep interest going, with Indy being the permanent "big oval" (the only concession FTG gets), and one race each at a road, street and hybrid track, on a rotating basis to keep promoters happy. I'd be happy to help them work it all out! :)

[trish]

50/50 on track types is the hopeful wish of fearful HRL people. They WISH a unified series would have 50% ovals but a true, unified, diverse driver's championship should be only 25% ovals. So, in a 20 race season there would be 5 oval races, split as evenly as possible among Indy, one more track of 2.0 mi, such as Michigan, a lower banked 1.5 mi track (are there any?) and a couple of one milers (including Milwaukee). Five natural road courses, 5 true street races, and 5 park/airport/street combo tracks like Cleveland, St. Pete or Monterrey. Four distinctly different track types, one champion...the best driver in the world. Oh, yeah...and each year a mega bucks bonus points "Grand Slam", series within a series would keep interest going, with Indy being the permanent "big oval" (the only concession FTG gets), and one race each at a road, street and hybrid track, on a rotating basis to keep promoters happy. I'd be happy to help them work it all out! :)
A street race is anything that's not on a permanent course. I don't see how a fair split would involve ten of them versus five ovals and five road courses. Fifty-percent ovals sounds fair to me.

[RTKar]

More Amigo's aren't needed as much as more fans are.

An alliance with Panoz is a good idea though.

[racer2c]

More Amigo's aren't needed as much as more fans are.

An alliance with Panoz is a good idea though.

But if you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding? :confused:

[Ankf00]

salmon, good.
bacon, bad.
investments, good.
credit debt, bad.
champcar, good.
irl, bad.
panoz, good.
ftg, bad.

:gomer:

[dando]

salmon, good.
bacon, bad.
investments, good.
credit debt, bad.
champcar, good.
irl, bad.
panoz, good.
ftg, bad.

:gomer:
Now can you make that into a Haiku? :)

-Kevin

[Chief]

fourrunner said it.....FTG's promise to go to roads and accept the devil makes them the wandering fools. They have nothing and in fact makes them far less now then when they started....at least they had a "vision".

The war's over. They've got what they wanted and they should stop looking over they're shoulder.

ChrisB, this is stupid to keep beating the dead horse. The old CART is gone and we don't want anything the IRL has. I say FTG needs to bolster his entry rules, like 25/8 or 30/3 or even 33/0 for the 500. That might force CCWS' hand. NOT!

FTG made the rules, he don't need us. He's proven it time after time. Forget the thought this way they need to concentrate on their own and forget about us.

[Lizzerd]

5 Amigos, 3 Amigos, 12 Amigos... I don't think it matters.

Read my lips. With no disrespect intended to anybody who has offered their own solutions to the "split" here, (and I abhor that term, because it wasn't a "split", it was a power grab) there will be no "merger". Ever. Come up with all the plans you want, but it won't happen.

Two reasons why, IMHO. One, the chassis specs for '07, I think, make running on the high speed ovals a bit more dangerous than most drivers, fans, and the people willing to pay the repair and hospital bills are willing to accept. The second reason is FTG will NEVER go with anything KK, et al, propose and vice versa. He is an ignorant, arrogant, distrustful, insanely rich inheiritor that has the intelligence of a ground slug. You really think this is someone you want to invite into your business? Not me, if it was my business.

Forget it, get over it, move on, and watch irl die a slow death. Then we can rejoice.

[manic mechanic]

A street race is anything that's not on a permanent course. I don't see how a fair split would involve ten of them versus five ovals and five road courses. Fifty-percent ovals sounds fair to me.

50% ovals would be a joke if the *rl formula applies...33% max is acceptable in a 21 race schedule, with no oval over 18 degrees banking. Two 2 mile tracks (MIS and Fontana), four 1.5 mile and under tracks (Phoenix, Loudon, Kansas, and Vegas), and one over 2 miles. The big key is making them profitable while appeasing the fans (ref: Vegas with 1500lbs/car too much downforce). This 'aint the "Field of Dreams", baby.

Natural terrain road courses should make up 33%, and street courses the remaining third of the schedule.

The problem is getting people to attend the tracks that are conducive to the racing we all love so much (RA, Seca, MO, etc.). Product without promotion sits on the shelf and rots, while promotion with little product (ref: San Jose) draws the bucks in but barely whets the appetite of those who appreciate RACING.

NO WAY should we let FTG have any slice of the pie except as a track owner...We don't need/want anything he has except the facility he owns (until the France family takes it over) and "the vision" version 9.0 (or however many revisions it has gone through by now) is not now, and never has been worth the rabbit carcass I dodged driving to work last week.

Those 4 feet weren't lucky for the rabbit... ;)

manic

[RTKar]

But if you don't eat your meat how can you have any pudding? :confused:

Too many chiefs with 5 Amigo's.

[Insomniac]

A street race is anything that's not on a permanent course. I don't see how a fair split would involve ten of them versus five ovals and five road courses. Fifty-percent ovals sounds fair to me.

I'd like to see 12/8 (ovals) in Champ Car. 2 or 3 super speedways (2 Mi+), 2 or 3 short ovals (1 Mi) and 2 or 3 regular ovals (1.5 Mi). Mix them in enough.

[NismoZ]

I like Manic's thinking, I was merely making a distinction between a track like Cleveland, which I would not consider a street course (sorry Trish) and a venue such as St. Pete, which I would not call an airport. I really don't regard Monterrey as a natural road course, either. In an 18 race schedule, 33% ovals is OK, but evenly split among 2 "big" (Indy included) 2 "medium" 1.5 mi., and 2 "small", 1.25 or 1.0, then 6 "street" courses if Trish wants to lump those hybrids with them :) , and 6 road courses. I'd still like to see that Grand Slam, though...Indy, one more medium or small oval, a street/hybrid course and a road course. The new '07 car is being produced with consideration for racing on ovals, so the desire to drop ALL ovals really isn't part of the plan yet. A guy/team who could win at Long Beach, Indianapolis, Road America and Milwaukee would be something very special! (can you guess my general location on the map!? :D )

[mueber]

Anyone who hasn't figured out after ten years that any "solution" that includes Boy George is, at best, temporary is, at best, a slow learner.

The solution is for Champ Car to build itself into a series people what to see.

[Methanolandbrats]

Probably the only sensible response to this topic is below
http://giggl.in/forumpics/notagain.jpg

[L1P1]

Sounds reasonable, therefore, it won't make any sense to FTG. :shakehead My preference would be for FTG not to be involved in ownership other than his tracks. However, they'll prolly need to throw him a bone. I suspect the only way he'll understand the depth of his failure will be when the field is <33 cars next May.

-Kevin

Dando's nailed it. I'd be all for it, Panoz would be all for it, K/F/G would be all for it, Penske, Rahal & Ganassi might even be for it. The manufacturers certainly would, as would the sponsors.

But if TG is left with a 20% stake, he'd be relegated back to whiny trackowner status. He's previously (and repeatedly) turned down a 50-50 division. IMHO, 20% would be generous after what has always needed to be done to him finally happens.

[emjaya]

The solution is for Champ Car to build itself into a series people what to see.

My thoughts exactly. :)

KK is doing just that Imho. :thumbup:

[ChrisB]

Thanks for your thoughts guys! Just curious to see what everyone else is thinking. One more question from me to add (and I'll just post it here)


Would there be any advantage to at least selling a share in the series to Don Panoz? Make him the 4th Amigo?

[Insomniac]

Thanks for your thoughts guys! Just curious to see what everyone else is thinking. One more question from me to add (and I'll just post it here)


Would there be any advantage to at least selling a share in the series to Don Panoz? Make him the 4th Amigo?

I wouldn't see a point unless they are still losing money. I'd presume having him in would reduce the cost to compete. Otherwise, no need to slice the pie up more.

[NismoZ]

THEN what would we call them, the "Gang Of Four?" Isn't it sort of the "Big Amigo + Two" right now? I'm wondering what a three slice CC pie would look like based on relative money power and influence.

[extramundane]

Would there be any advantage to at least selling a share in the series to Don Panoz? Make him the 4th Amigo?

Since it would make about half the ALMS forum posters' heads explode, yes. ;)

[DjDrOmusic]

I went through many wobbly times of anger during May the past 10 years, but never again. Champcar does not need the Indy 500 or TG anymore than Formula 1 does. Any scenario for the racing series and the league joining together that involves Tony George is just wishful thinking. The man is too arrogant to accept the fact that he couldn't manage a BBQ grill let alone an entire racing league. :rolleyes:

[nrc]

THEN what would we call them, the "Gang Of Four?" Isn't it sort of the "Big Amigo + Two" right now? I'm wondering what a three slice CC pie would look like based on relative money power and influence.

As I recall the original ownership split was 45/45/10. Forsythe has always tended to stay quiet and work behind the seens. I wouldn't underestimate his influence in the series.

[emjaya]

Would there be any advantage to at least selling a share in the series to Don Panoz? Make him the 4th Amigo?

Not if they want to allow other chassis builders back in.Or if they have problems with the Panoz chassis and want to change manufacturers.A lot easier to say goodbye with Panoz as a supplier,as an owner not so easy.Imho :)

[Rocketdoc]

Thanks guys. Here's 2 posts from OC and TF which say pretty much the same thing from opposite POV's:

CCWS fan POV: As long as TG is around, he will demand he owns it all, if he's close to losing, he'll probably agree to some sort of partnership, get his **** back in order and start his attempt to control everything again. History shows this.

IRL fan POV: What guarentee is there, once the IRL bridges are burned behind Mr. George, that the operators of the other series will not double-cross him and reinstitue the system that existed just before he created the IRL, that system being the reason that creating the IRL was so necessary.

In other words, there's lots of mistrust on *both sides* that if this were put together, sooner or later one side would try to assert excessive control over the other. Tough situation. Assuming they can never get together, I have 3 more ideas I'm curious what fans on *both sides* think...

1. In order to try to disassociate itself from any history that could be construed as Indy centric, should CCWS drop all ovals and the name "Champ car" and change it to something like "Formula A" (http://oldracingcars.com/f5000/) which was the predecessor name of SCCA F-5000? What do you CCWS fans think of this? What do you IRL fans think of this?

2. In order to try to disassociate itself from the "formula car" world, should the IRL drop RE formula cars and adopt some kind of non-aero "Modern roadster" or a revival of the USAC stock car series, using cars similar to Nascar? The point is to use cars which are closer to the experience held by sprint-car oval drivers. Again, what do you IRL fans think of this? What do you CCWS fans think of this?

3. And finally, should CCWS seriously consider running a race on Memorial Sunday, maybe even if it overlaps with the Indy 500 time slot? Once again, what do you CCWS fans think of this? What do you IRL fans think of this?




1. Champ Car is the logical successor of open wheeled racing in this country; not the HURL© (Honda Uncertainty Racing League), or USAC's joke of thinking they do.
They therefore define the term “Champ Car” and will keep it.

USAC has a great race series (at least from the racing end), but they're mired in the deep past, by design (not withstanding the idiotic move to the "new" old roasters.), with the fuel cell sticking out the back of the car, short wheelbases, so that when they do come together, they “get air”, which is much of what some of the vultures in the stands want.

The SCCA Formula A and Formula 5000 was a transition in open wheeled racing; nothing more.

2. You need to take it up with those who supposedly educate/inform/misguide/confuse Tony George on the world around him: AJ Foit, Jack Arute, Chris Econowacki, Edna’s Wabash Psychics Parlor and Bait Shop, et. al. It’s the HURL © that wants to go road racing and street racing.
I guess the Great Indy Spirit, St. Sagamore, spoke to Tony about that in one of his err… ah… less lucid “mental states”.
As for the HURL © going to front engine roadsters, it would drive most of the several thousand HURL © fans into Nirvana. But it would probably kill more drivers than were killed in the roadster era in years gone by, and separate many, many skulls and spines.


3. Champ Car should run a competing 500 mile oval race on the same day as the HURL © 500.
In fact, Champ Car should institute a new “Triple Crown Series” without the HURL © 500 involved or even spoken about.
Promote the races as the new ‘United States Champ Car Triple Crown’ (the USCCTC...pronounce that and you'll sound like Daffy Duck), so as to diminish the HURL © 500 further into obscurity.

BTW, Tony George deserves absolutely nothing (zip, nada, nuttin’) as a percentage of the remaining series (Champ Car).
If he ever gets some clean advice, he should be thrilled to have his track filled again with more than 33 cars, and that’s if Champ Car decides to run there instead of their own 500 miler.

[Andrew Longman]

1. Champ Car is the logical successor of open wheeled racing in this country; not the HURL© (Honda Uncertainty Racing League), or USAC's joke of thinking they do.
They therefore define the term “Champ Car” and will keep it.

USAC has a great race series (at least from the racing end), but they're mired in the deep past, by design (not withstanding the idiotic move to the "new" old roasters.), with the fuel cell sticking out the back of the car, short wheelbases, so that when they do come together, they “get air”, which is much of what some of the vultures in the stands want.

The SCCA Formula A and Formula 5000 was a transition in open wheeled racing; nothing more.

2. You need to take it up with those who supposedly educate/inform/misguide/confuse Tony George on the world around him: AJ Foit, Jack Arute, Chris Econowacki, Edna’s Wabash Psychics Parlor and Bait Shop, et. al. It’s the HURL © that wants to go road racing and street racing.
I guess the Great Indy Spirit, St. Sagamore, spoke to Tony about that in one of his err… ah… less lucid “mental states”.
As for the HURL © going to front engine roadsters, it would drive most of the several thousand HURL © fans into Nirvana. But it would probably kill more drivers than were killed in the roadster era in years gone by, and separate many, many skulls and spines.


3. Champ Car should run a competing 500 mile oval race on the same day as the HURL © 500.
In fact, Champ Car should institute a new “Triple Crown Series” without the HURL © 500 involved or even spoken about.
Promote the races as the new ‘United States Champ Car Triple Crown’, so as to diminish the HURL © 500 further into obscurity.

BTW, Tony George deserves absolutely nothing (zip, nada, nuttin’) as a percentage of the remaining series (Champ Car).
If he ever gets some clean advice, he should be thrilled to have his track filled again with more than 33 cars, and that’s if Champ Car decides to run there instead of their own 500 miler.

Nothing more to say :thumbup:

[JT265]

1. Champ Car is the logical successor of open wheeled racing in this country; not the HURL© (Honda Uncertainty Racing League), or USAC's joke of thinking they do.
They therefore define the term “Champ Car” and will keep it.

USAC has a great race series (at least from the racing end), but they're mired in the deep past, by design (not withstanding the idiotic move to the "new" old roasters.), with the fuel cell sticking out the back of the car, short wheelbases, so that when they do come together, they “get air”, which is much of what some of the vultures in the stands want.

The SCCA Formula A and Formula 5000 was a transition in open wheeled racing; nothing more.

2. You need to take it up with those who supposedly educate/inform/misguide/confuse Tony George on the world around him: AJ Foit, Jack Arute, Chris Econowacki, Edna’s Wabash Psychics Parlor and Bait Shop, et. al. It’s the HURL © that wants to go road racing and street racing.
I guess the Great Indy Spirit, St. Sagamore, spoke to Tony about that in one of his err… ah… less lucid “mental states”.
As for the HURL © going to front engine roadsters, it would drive most of the several thousand HURL © fans into Nirvana. But it would probably kill more drivers than were killed in the roadster era in years gone by, and separate many, many skulls and spines.


3. Champ Car should run a competing 500 mile oval race on the same day as the HURL © 500.
In fact, Champ Car should institute a new “Triple Crown Series” without the HURL © 500 involved or even spoken about.
Promote the races as the new ‘United States Champ Car Triple Crown’, so as to diminish the HURL © 500 further into obscurity.

BTW, Tony George deserves absolutely nothing (zip, nada, nuttin’) as a percentage of the remaining series (Champ Car).
If he ever gets some clean advice, he should be thrilled to have his track filled again with more than 33 cars, and that’s if Champ Car decides to run there instead of their own 500 miler.



Perfect. :thumbup:

Let's not forget tho' that Mumbles has that computational fluid dynamically thingamajiggy goin' on. :saywhat: :D

[Rocketdoc]

Perfect. :thumbup:

Let's not forget tho' that Mumbles has that computational fluid dynamically thingamajiggy goin' on. :saywhat: :D


Unfortunately, it’s the liquidity and lack of viscosity of his frontal cortex.