No more "Indy" in Toronto

[nrc]

The deal is done and the word "Indy" has been expunged from the title...


Grand Prix Association of Toronto, a company wholly-owned by Champ Car co-owners Gerald Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven, will take over promotion and control of the race from Molson brewery, which will remain the title sponsor of the event.

The race, which has been a fixture on the lakefront streets of Toronto for the past 20 years, will be known as the Molson Champ Car Grand Prix of Toronto in 2006.
http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?id=141851

I understand some folk's desire to hang on the to the brand equity that Molson hs built with the "Indy" moniker, but I wouldn't be surprised if the rights to that term just aren't transferable.

[NismoZ]

Good!

[skaven]

Very good. :thumbup:

I bet the locals who only knew it as the "Indy" will figure it out going forward. Another step in the right direction in my opinion.

[oddlycalm]

The deal is done and the word "Indy" has been expunged from the title... :thumbup:

oc

[jonovision_man]

Too bad. :thumdown:

Big loss of brand identity in Toronto.

[L1P1]

Too bad. :thumdown:

Big loss of brand identity in Toronto.

It was worse in Indy. Oh well, onward and upward...

[cameraman]

Too bad. :thumdown:

Big loss of brand identity in Toronto.

I think the folks in Toronto are smart enough to figure out that Paul Tracy, Andrew Ranger & Alex Tagliani have not changed series. Exactly how many car races does Molson run through downtown in a given summer? What is someone going to get it confused with? Sheesh.

[devilmaster]

I think the folks in Toronto are smart enough to figure out that Paul Tracy, Andrew Ranger & Alex Tagliani have not changed series. Exactly how many car races does Molson run through downtown in a given summer? What is someone going to get it confused with? Sheesh.

that isn't the point, cameraman. This topic was discussed earlier. If they don't have to change it because of a lawsuit from IMS, in my opinion they shouldn't change it.

Brand recognition is an amazing thing when you are marketing something. As an example, when I was young, me and my sister used to play a simple game. We'd quiz each other on brand recognition taglines. (ex: 'good to the last drop' is... ) It is a simple lesson in recognizing the power of brand recognition. Once you have brand recognition, the realization is that regardless of the reasons why, you have to spend more money telling everyone you changed the name, and you have to spend enough to ensure everyone knows about it. There will be some out there in T.O. that will confuse it at first till explained. And that is fine, but you have to spend the money explaining it. Some people had said before that the 'Indy' name should have been dropped just because of what the name Indy relates to. That is a silly reason to change the name, IMO.

The truth is that, regardless of the name change, everyone is still going to call it the Molson Indy for years to come. It was a simple name to say, already has strong name recognition in the GTA, and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the name back, down the road because it is just easier.

I applaud KK and GF for buying the rights, and although I don't agree with changing the name, I know they can afford the extra money that will be spent informing the fans out there.

[Robstar]

I think the folks in Toronto are smart enough to figure out that Paul Tracy, Andrew Ranger & Alex Tagliani have not changed series. Exactly how many car races does Molson run through downtown in a given summer? What is someone going to get it confused with? Sheesh.

I dunno... If they did it (I'm assuming they will at some stage) in Australia it would confuse uninformed Aussies even more...
Actually, as Steve says people would still call it Indy anywho...

[jonovision_man]

The truth is that, regardless of the name change, everyone is still going to call it the Molson Indy for years to come. It was a simple name to say, already has strong name recognition in the GTA, and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the name back, down the road because it is just easier.


Yup. It's known as the "Molson Indy", or "the Indy". That's what the media calls it, that's what people here call it.

If you then see an ad for "Molson Champ Car Grand Prix of Toronto", is that the same thing? Something new? Did more change than just the name?

And the ALMS race @ Mosport just down the road is called the "Grand Prix of Mosport". Think there isn't any room for confusion?

jono

[RHR_Fan]

I'll probably still call it the Molson Indy regardless of the name change. I'll try and remember to refer it as the Molson CC GP. A lot of "casual" race fans will continue to call it the Molson Indy since it's been that way for so long. When I've been there and have gone out and picked up food after a day at the track, people ask me if I've been at the Indy.

~Nicole

[nrc]

that isn't the point, cameraman. This topic was discussed earlier. If they don't have to change it because of a lawsuit from IMS, in my opinion they shouldn't change it.

I don't think it should have to come down to a lawsuit (ie, we're going to use it until you sue us). It would probably be pretty clear whether the rights were transferable. It wouldn't make sense to stir up a confrontation that would imply that you need the Indy brand.

[chop456]

They should have made it a 500k and renamed it the Toronto Champ Car Indy 500 just to watch some slackjawed, big-foreheaded gomers' heads explode.

[Lizzerd]

They should have made it a 500k and renamed it the Toronto Champ Car Indy 500 just to watch some slackjawed, big-foreheaded gomers' heads explode.

:rofl:

[racer2c]

Do we still call Champ Cars, "Indy Cars"? Didn't take but about oh, five minutes for that change to take effect. Winston Cup became Nextel Cup with hardly a hiccup. So now they can call it the "Champ Race".

I'm glad it's changed. :thumbup:

[Andrew Longman]

So long as the promotion in TO leads with the fact that PT, Tags and Ranger will be there everything will be fine. They just need to avoid any confusion about whether the cars and stars they are used to will still be there. Doubtless though, folks like my wife's cousin will still be asking we, "Ya comin' up so wee caan go down ta da Ex ta wahtch da Indy? Eh? Ya should doncha ta know"

Good news. Wonder what Lagault will do about Montreal, presuming he promotes it at all.

[pferrf1]

It will be known as the INDY for years to come. People around here have intuitively learned that if you say you're going to the INDY - you're going to Toronto. If you tell someone you're going to the Grand Prix, you're headed to Montreal for the Grand Prix du Canada.

You can't change 20 years of brand marketing by one of the most active marketers in Canada in one or even five years.

[Don Quixote]

They should have made it a 500k and renamed it the Toronto Champ Car Indy 500 just to watch some slackjawed, big-foreheaded gomers' heads explode.
Stop it, you're killing me. :laugh:

[High Sided]

I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the name back, down the road because it is just easier.

easier to say, what about this?
"bridgestone presents the champcar world series powered by ford"

they aren't indy cars and kudos to the trio doing all they can to get the series as far from the minds that still think indy means something!
:thumbup:

[NismoZ]

Yes, thank God for that...and how much EASIER to readjust when/if there is any sort of unification. Canadians and Australians can continue to refer to "their" races as Indy Car races, but guess what? THEY AREN'T! I see no harm in their misperception but the ChampCar organization does not need to contribute further TO it. The "Indy" term is far more strongly imbedded Down Under and I don't look for a change there ANY time soon. (No FTG to Surfers rumors out there, are there?!) :)

[racer2c]

Hell, they can call it a go-kart race for all I care as long as they keep buyin' tickets.

[emjaya]

The way the race in Surfers Paradise is promoted "Indy" refers to the whole weekend and not just the cars ie; "the Indy Carnival".The fact that it is the "Bridgestone presents the Champcar World series powered by Ford" does not matter,those who know know and those who don't know don't care.After 15 years everybody knows "Indy" is the race at the Gold Coast. :)

Sadly,I think they could sub the Champcars for the IRL quite easily because of that fact. :eek: :thumdown:

[Rocketdoc]

Too bad. :thumdown:

Big loss of brand identity in Toronto.

Wrong brand.

Champ Car needs to make its identity the prominent part of its product.

Distance itself forever from anything "Indy".

[jonovision_man]

Wrong brand.

Champ Car needs to make its identity the prominent part of its product.

Distance itself forever from anything "Indy".

If you're only concerned with the series, I don't entirely disagree.

If you're concerned with the race, they're losing their brand.

Besides, I doubt many people in Toronto made the association between the Molson Indy and the Indy 500 or the Indy Racing League, since the latter two aren't on the radar here at all.

jono

[Rocketdoc]

If you're only concerned with the series, I don't entirely disagree.

If you're concerned with the race, they're losing their brand.

Besides, I doubt many people in Toronto made the association between the Molson Indy and the Indy 500 or the Indy Racing League, since the latter two aren't on the radar here at all.

jono

If the third statement is correct, then it negates the second.

I understand what you're saying, but it's in Champ Car's interest, IMO, to loose every reference to anything "Indy".

To people like me, the term Indy means very little aanymore other than the current state of affairs of a once great race, brought down to its knees.

[oddlycalm]

While branding is a major issue in marketing, and brand name changes are normally avoided, it's simply common sense that you don't continue with a brand name that advertises your competition every time it's used. History is full of major brand name changes that went off without incident, and many that were total disasters. It's up to CCWS management which result they will have. With the proper advertising it won't matter at all. Without the proper advertising the event will flounder.

oc

[devilmaster]

To people like me, the term Indy means very little aanymore other than the current state of affairs of a once great race, brought down to its knees.

There's the prob. To forum members who follow all the ins and outs of the split, of course the 'Molson Indy' name relates to Tony, his series and his track.

Does every fan of the race in Toronto think that way? I will submit that significant percentage of attendees are from the Toronto area. The question then becomes how many of those local attendees relate the 'Indy' with everything FTG.

I'll reiterate what i've said before. KK and GF bought the rights to the race. If they want to change it, that's fine. They have the money to pay for the extra marketing to let everyone know that the name's been changed.

Now that being said - many forum members have said this - 'They should change the name because everyone knows Indy means the IRL.' Or as OC said above - 'It advertises the competition.' I don't and won't buy that argument - and I believe that 20 years of brand recognition in an area where the IRL doesn't even have a race doesn't automatically warrant the change because of the split. My proof - if Molson holds on to the rights, they would keep the name Indy. And Australia will keep the name Indy on their race and week long events.

[Rocketdoc]

There's the prob. To forum members who follow all the ins and outs of the split, of course the 'Molson Indy' name relates to Tony, his series and his track.

Does every fan of the race in Toronto think that way? I will submit that significant percentage of attendees are from the Toronto area. The question then becomes how many of those local attendees relate the 'Indy' with everything FTG.

I'll reiterate what i've said before. KK and GF bought the rights to the race. If they want to change it, that's fine. They have the money to pay for the extra marketing to let everyone know that the name's been changed.

Now that being said - many forum members have said this - 'They should change the name because everyone knows Indy means the IRL.' Or as OC said above - 'It advertises the competition.' I don't and won't buy that argument - and I believe that 20 years of brand recognition in an area where the IRL doesn't even have a race doesn't automatically warrant the change because of the split. My proof - if Molson holds on to the rights, they would keep the name Indy. And Australia will keep the name Indy on their race and week long events.


I'm such an ignorant guy when it comes to marketing that I can't argue your point with any sort of knowledge, and there's a part of me that wants to stick a sharp pointy object into Tony Geroge's eye... repeatedly.

[oddlycalm]

Or as OC said above - 'It advertises the competition.' I don't and won't buy that argument - and I believe that 20 years of brand recognition in an area where the IRL doesn't even have a race doesn't automatically warrant the change because of the split. My proof - if Molson holds on to the rights, they would keep the name Indy. And Australia will keep the name Indy on their race and week long events. Steve, it would be hard to find anyone more resistant to re-branding than me, but there are some conditions that do warrant it. Whether this is one of them remains to be seen. One thing for certain, we'll have the chance to see if they made a miscalculation come next summer.

oc