View Full Version : Grand Prix of Houston
Website has been updated: http://www.grandprixofhouston.com/
Track map is there but it seems to be some flash thingy. It includes that curve around the Astrodome :thumbup:
Supposed to be a news conference today. Hopefully they will announce the sponsors and ticket info.
Wheel-Nut
11-09-05, 10:38 AM
Been checking the site daily. :thumbup: :thumbup:
http://raceweather.homestead.com/files/TEMP/0houstonGP.jpg
1.7 miles, yaaaayyyy! :rolleyes:
There isn't a single passing zone in there. :thumdown:
racer2c
11-09-05, 11:44 AM
that's not a race track, that's a subway route! :shakehead
Maybe into 2 and 5?
Possibly 7 as well. Now I just have to decide where I want to sit. :)
Dr. Corkski
11-09-05, 11:51 AM
Where are the railroad tracks? :gomer:
Dirty Sanchez
11-09-05, 11:59 AM
got lola spares?
Methanolandbrats
11-09-05, 12:16 PM
Where are the railroad tracks? :gomer:That's what I was thinking. You need a couple moguls to entertain the event goers.
Dirty Sanchez
11-09-05, 12:20 PM
but you gotta admit... turn 4 looks like a rad drifting corner :laugh:
Wheel-Nut
11-09-05, 12:23 PM
Wow, tough crowd!! :thumdown: The RR tracks are in the upper right hand corner, maybe they can extend a spur to cross the course.
Methanolandbrats
11-09-05, 12:26 PM
Wow, tough crowd!! :thumdown: The RR tracks are in the upper right hand corner, maybe they can extend a spur to cross the course. Good eye, they could put the crossing right in front of grandstand 2. Full throttle, grab 6th gear and catch three feet of air before braking....that would be a fantastic show :thumbup:
racer2c
11-09-05, 12:36 PM
Nah, forget railroad tracks, throw 'em over on Interstate 610 for about two miles. Is that elevated by chance? It would be awesome, like my slot car track I had as a kid. :)
Wheel-Nut
11-09-05, 12:38 PM
Yes, 610 is elevated over Kirby and Fannin.
Sean O'Gorman
11-09-05, 12:49 PM
There isn't a single passing zone in there. :thumdown:
They could throw some of the Texans' O-line out on course, seems pretty easy to get past them. :D
Yeah, turn 4...I hear Rhys Millen got a call from Coyne.
Methanolandbrats
11-09-05, 01:04 PM
Is it possible to ascend a ramp outside the Astrodome, catch some air, fly into the Dome and then shoot out the other side? Like Mexico, only way cooler :thumbup:
I think they should cut north between the stadium and the dome, angle left on reliant to Kirby, then south to rejoin at the present turn 6. That ought to make it 2+ miles and faster.
1.7 miles, yaaaayyyy! :rolleyes:
There isn't a single passing zone in there. :thumdown:
Yes there is buddy! It's called pitlane!
We can only hope it matches the first Houston street course and all its scintillating action. :thumdown:
Is it possible to ascend a ramp outside the Astrodome, catch some air, fly into the Dome and then shoot out the other side? Like Mexico, only way cooler :thumbup:
Might be dangerous what with all the Katrina evacuees inside. BTW, I'm betting if there are any still there, we can certainly count on them in the head count. :gomer:
oddlycalm
11-09-05, 02:18 PM
catch some air, fly into the Dome and then shoot out the other side? That kinda sounds like what happened to my bald headed buddy after eating food from street vendors in Nogales... :eek:
oc
Dr. Corkski
11-09-05, 02:43 PM
They could throw some of the Texans' O-line out on course, seems pretty easy to get past them. :D :rofl:
Hey, that's another 15 to the attendance total!
jonovision_man
11-09-05, 02:44 PM
Isn't there a building in the way just south of the Astrodome??
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=westridge+drive+,+houston,+tx&spn=0.005570,0.010763&t=h&iwloc=A&hl=en
Or is that no longer there?
I get the impression "turn 1" will be a light kink, so that'll be a long straight in the front there. Just from the google map, things look a little better than from the track map.
the old "astrohall" in that photo no longer exists. You can see that the field at Reliant Stadium hasn't even been laid out in that photo.
this track is like a "best-of" cd, only it's "worst-of"...
Track list
1. Miami GP
2. Denver GP
3. San Jose GP
maybe beerlooter will make an appearance at the Dome, that'd actually be worth the price of admission... :gomer:
Methanolandbrats
11-09-05, 03:39 PM
never mind........did'tn work.
Wow, tough crowd!! :thumdown:
Yep. (waaaaaa road america waaaaaa)
Good thing I like it since I will be attending. I think the turn 3,4,5 area is going to be great.
2 & 5 would be passing zones if they're wide and have good run-off. Hopefully the fact that they're showing hospitality where the run-off should be doesn't mean they've forgotten it. Turn 4 could be spectacular.
cameraman
11-09-05, 04:31 PM
An indoor paddock is an interesting twist.
Al Czervik
11-09-05, 04:35 PM
Hopefully the fact that they're showing hospitality where the run-off should be doesn't mean they've forgotten it.
Gives new meaning to "hospitality", doesn't it?
An indoor paddock is an interesting twist.
IIRC they had the paddock inside the convention center when the race was downtown.
theunions
11-09-05, 04:57 PM
IIRC they had the paddock inside the convention center when the race was downtown.
Correct...as was Long Beach in its opening years.
Methanolandbrats
11-09-05, 05:11 PM
Yep. (waaaaaa road america waaaaaa)
Good thing I like it since I will be attending. I think the turn 3,4,5 area is going to be great. Turns 3,4,5...........Houston's Eau Rouge.
pferrf1
11-09-05, 06:22 PM
To me, the obvious modificataions would be to follow Reliant Parkway past turn 3, make a 90 degree left on to Kirby Drive for a second long straight, ending at another 90 degree left joining the track at turn 6.
I'll bet that this specific was devised as such for two reasons:
1) to help keep the track length shorter to keep initial capital investment smaller, i.e. less walls, fencing, etc.
2) Not to impede Kirby drive since it has a highway interchange needed to get traffic flow in and out.
1) to help keep the track length shorter to keep initial capital investment smaller, i.e. less walls, fencing, etc.
Plus the cost of lighting. The races both Friday and Saturday are at night.
Dr. Corkski
11-09-05, 07:38 PM
Turns 3,4,5...........Houston's Eau Rouge.It looks like a big comma,,, :gomer:
What put gomerism in everybody's pocket today? :shakehead
Methanolandbrats
11-09-05, 09:01 PM
What put gomerism in everybody's pocket today? :shakehead Gomerism is blindly following the leader. Rejecting that POS track is anti-gomerism. Half the turns are 90 degrees or worse. It sucks. If that's what openwheel racing will be reduced to fine, but there will always be people who remember real racetracks where these cars stretched their legs and drivers puckered up lap after lap.
Gomerism is blindly following the leader. Rejecting that POS track is anti-gomerism. Half the turns are 90 degrees or worse. It sucks. If that's what openwheel racing will be reduced to fine, but there will always be people who remember real racetracks where these cars stretched their legs and drivers puckered up lap after lap.
And you know, even in the pinnacle of motorsports it's being dumbed down! (Tilke tracks) Even Spa with the last really challenging corner in racing that is on a top level circuit is in jeopardy right now! :shakehead
It's becoming more and more the short attention span audience that seems to be the target. (look a Wookie) Die hards have been left behind!
Guess I will move back to Oz, buy a cheap ute and follow the V8 Supercars around the country, Oh wait! They will be next to sell out! DAMMIT! :saywhat:
coolhand
11-09-05, 10:33 PM
It looks like a big comma,,, :gomer:
:laugh: :laugh:
seriously, foget about the track, where will the face of champ car competition be :gomer:
coolhand
11-09-05, 10:35 PM
And you know, even in the pinnacle of motorsports it's being dumbed down! (Tilke tracks) Even Spa with the last really challenging corner in racing that is on a top level circuit is in jeopardy right now! :shakehead
It's becoming more and more the short attention span audience that seems to be the target. (look a Wookie) Die hards have been left behind!
Guess I will move back to Oz, buy a cheap ute and follow the V8 Supercars around the country, Oh wait! They will be next to sell out! DAMMIT! :saywhat:
very true, when is that last newtrack built for a major racing series that blew our minds?
This is the reality, this is the future. Whoopee. The once great CART racing series devolved into festivals with strolling mimes and face painting. Oh gee, let's get the whole family fun thing going too while we're at it.
Oh, and there's a race too? Wowwee!!
Yep, OW is officially dead. KK said it the other day. REAL racetracks no longer make financial sense. Trying to sell your product is too much work and might cost money. Take the easy way out, throw up some concrete barriers in any city USA, Canada, Mexico, Korea, Japan, etc. etc., over inflate the attendance and the next thing ya know everyone thinks there's something big going on. That is until they realize that this was the once great Cart racing series that packed those REAL race tracks and had the racing world by the balls and now no one cares anymore except a 1.0 on network TV and a few event fans who won't care where this racing series is next week when it leaves town.
My how the mighty have fallen. :shakehead
Sorry for the D & G but I'm not hangin in here only to wind up like one of the USAC earl gomers who waited for their short track stars to win Indy and then they came and went and were replace with guys named Vitor and Airton.
The ovals will be gone, RA gone, M/O gone, natural terrain RC's gone, even Portland if they don't shape up. I don't need it in neon.
racer2c
11-09-05, 10:43 PM
IMO they could have ten of these POS city bus routes on the schedule as long as they got RA or LS back on the tour.
A series full of this crap is nothing more than an exhibition.
BUT, let's not forget that KK and co. never said other wise. They took over to make Champ Car a profitable, sports entertainment package. Have race, just add water. There is still enough cheerleader in me to hang on to the prospect that with growth a return to what we prefer will return. So it's not like they've been misleading.
Oh, and we just did come off of a true road race course. Just cuz it ain't in the middle of Wisconsin...
Oh, and we just did come off of a true road race course. Just cuz it ain't in the middle of Wisconsin...
NO!!!! I want that course in the middle of WI!!!! AND that one in the middle of OH! :mad:
they won't take the race onto the roads surrounding reliant arena, they won't shut those streets down for reconstruction to remove the crowns.
Welllllll, it's a more interesting layout than the old Houston track, with a wider variety of corners. It's going to have to be pretty wide to be as raceable as the old one though.
I really hope that, after Philadelphia comes on board, Kevin and Gerry decide that they have enough street races on the schedule and that they'll add Road America and a couple of other real tracks to satisfy those of us who would like to see the cars for longer than five seconds per lap.
Lizzerd
11-10-05, 01:12 AM
NO!!!! I want that course in the middle of WI!!!! AND that one in the middle of OH! :mad:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Lizzerd
11-10-05, 01:16 AM
I just realized... the track is clockwise.
I just realized... the track is clockwise.
Um, when they told us to turn the clock back, they only meant an hour, not perpetually. ;) It's counterclockwise.
Lefty loosey
Righty tighty
I really hope that, after Philadelphia comes on board, Kevin and Gerry decide that they have enough street races on the schedule and that they'll add Road America and a couple of other real tracks to satisfy those of us who would like to see the cars for longer than five seconds per lap.
On that Racecar Driver show on WGN, during the San Jose episode KK said,
"[public] Road circuits are how motorsports started. Street circuits are where people used to race. We're taking it back to it's roots, and that means it's hard."
IMO, these festivals are not a stop gap. They are not a temporary solution. They are not a means back to RA, MO, Laguna or Michigan. They are it.
They bought Cosworth. They bought Long Beach. They bought Toronto. They did not buy RA. Champ Bus has made its choice and is hoping the hard core fan will come along, but they won't turn around for anyone.
KK and Forsythe's thinking isn't too hard to understand, look at what the hard core have already accepted. Single engine supplier, frozen aero packages, no super speedway wings, reduced car counts, loss of top teams, loss of top drivers, single chassis supplier, loss of road courses, loss of ovals, cancelled races, TBA races, Spike TV...etc. They figure if we haven't left yet, we never will. And, any loses can more than be made up with new fans.
Basically, Champ Car is saying, "It's not you. It's me. I hope we can still be friends."
Wake me up when someone offers to pay them to race a Road America and they say, "No."
Article in the Houston paper: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3451282
I've never understood how people can piss and moan about a track when a race hasn't even been run there yet. :confused:
They could throw some of the Texans' O-line out on course, seems pretty easy to get past them. :D
See now you should have said:
With David Carr on the field there isnt much passing going on to begin with. Houstonians are used to it.
Methanolandbrats
11-10-05, 09:44 AM
Wake me up when someone offers to pay them to race a Road America and they say, "No."They subsidized Vegas and Milwaukee and who knows what else. So the argument of a non-negotiable sanctioning fee is ********. There is no reason they could'nt rebuild Road America to preserve some sense of balance and tradition on the schedule. The drivers want it, the team owners want it and the fan base built over the last two decades wants it. The only people who don't want it are the Champcar Owners. They had 80k there for raceday before the split and they would have it again if they worked at it for a few years.
And I'm tired of hearing I support Road America because it's two hours from my house. I will be just as pissed if F1 abandons Spa or Suzuka and I don't live in Belgium and I won't be going to Japan any time soon.
They subsidized Vegas and Milwaukee and who knows what else. So the argument of a non-negotiable sanctioning fee is ********.
And Portland and Cleveland. It's only ****** if you assume that they have unlimited funds, which some folks seem to.
The only people who don't want it are the Champcar Owners.
I call BS. IMO the blame should be laid at the feet of the jerk that runs RA. Look at their behavior during the bancruptcy. The year before was the whole 'check is in the mail' deal. Isn't it RA's responsibility to promote their own freaking track? During the last race we stayed in Sheboygan as we usually do. You couldn't even tell there was a race a couple miles down the road. I did not see one 'Welcome Race Fans' sign anywhere. It was reported here that there had been no advertizing done in Chicago. It seems obvious to me that for some reason RA didn't want Champ Car back.
Dirty Sanchez
11-10-05, 10:24 AM
They subsidized Vegas and Milwaukee and who knows what else. So the argument of a non-negotiable sanctioning fee is ********. There is no reason they could'nt rebuild Road America to preserve some sense of balance and tradition on the schedule. The drivers want it, the team owners want it and the fan base built over the last two decades wants it. The only people who don't want it are the Champcar Owners. They had 80k there for raceday before the split and they would have it again if they worked at it for a few years.
And I'm tired of hearing I support Road America because it's two hours from my house. I will be just as pissed if F1 abandons Spa or Suzuka and I don't live in Belgium and I won't be going to Japan any time soon.ding. you get it :thumbup:
everything else is just excuses.
Dirty Sanchez
11-10-05, 10:25 AM
very true, when is that last newtrack built for a major racing series that blew our minds?the Turkish Otodrom seemed to blow a lot of people's minds. the drivers are still scratching their heads over it...
ChampCar to Turkey!? :eek:
Methanolandbrats
11-10-05, 10:59 AM
ChampCar to Turkey!? :eek:
Hell ya, Texas is big and can support two races. Like the Canadian tour, but with better food. :thumbup: Do it!
http://www.turkeytexas.com/new_page_2.htm
Wake me up when someone offers to pay them to race a Road America and they say, "No."
Pay them, promote them and hope someone shows up? Why? Is KK gonna offer to cover any loss if it turns out the track can't interest enough people to make even a marginal profit? And just where are these fans going to come from? Just how are you going to build a fanbase when you're product is primarily street races? Street races suck to watch on TV, they're boring. Watching cars chasing each other around for 2 hours between concrete barriers is as exciting as watching the earl running D shaped Nascar cookie cutters. The majority of the people showing up at street festivals are event fans anyway, they don't give a rats arze where this racing series heads next after they leave town.
I'm sure CCWS will probably have some very nicely attended street festivals but the TV numbers will continue to suck because street racing purely sucks for average Joe watching on TV. Without TV, no sponsors willing to pony up the big $$ to support the teams, without that, there's never the opportunity to move back to the REAL racetracks, you continue to be stuck with street races to pay and promote the races cause KK continues to have to support the field. It's an endless catch22.
Dr. Corkski
11-10-05, 12:26 PM
This direction of selling out to the highest bidder shows that the owners of Champ Car have absolutely no confidence in the product itself being anything beyond a niche sport for a bunch of weekend warriors and comma worshippers. :thumdown:
Accipiter
11-10-05, 12:39 PM
“We want to maximize speed and create passing opportunities to electrify the drivers and race fans alike.”
Whoops!
I'm sure CCWS will probably have some very nicely attended street festivals but the TV numbers will continue to suck because street racing purely sucks for average Joe watching on TV.
There has never been any difference between TV ratings for street races compared to road course races. That's the same argument IRL fans used to make for oval racing based on the delusionary notion that ovals got better ratings.
I'm not arguing that there's any reason that RA should want to be paying for a race at this point in time. The bottom line is that any business can only afford so many loss leaders. Until the current races that are on the schedule more for their market and contribution to the product either become self-sufficient or fail there probably aren't going to be any more money losers added to the schedule.
Gomerism is blindly following the leader. Rejecting that POS track is anti-gomerism. Half the turns are 90 degrees or worse. It sucks. If that's what openwheel racing will be reduced to fine, but there will always be people who remember real racetracks where these cars stretched their legs and drivers puckered up lap after lap.
Check in again when you look at the aerials and see how wide Reliant Blvd. is and also figure out that the parking lot parts of the track can be as wide as CC wants it to be.
We won't know if it "sucks" or "rocks" until the first cars start lapping on Thursday. Until then, my "gomerism" label will stand.
Methanolandbrats
11-10-05, 01:58 PM
We won't know if it "sucks" or "rocks" until the first cars start lapping on Thursday. Until then, my "gomerism" label will stand. http://www.promoteyourteam.com/images/Categories/Poms/main.jpg
Looks like it is going to be a really long off-season. :rolleyes:
It would've been interesting to see the promotion level that was applied to San Jose focused on a Laguna Seca race.
I'd hazard to say that most (half?) of the fans that showed up to RA in the heyday were actually "event" fans.
It was a big "event". It was promoted to all hell. I know people that went every year, but I wouldn't call them race fans. But they went, they camped, and loved it.
That needs to be recreated.
Dirty Sanchez
11-10-05, 02:30 PM
well... one side is working on improving its product at least :gomer:
Road America announces $5M upgrade Elkhart Lake, Wis., November 10, 2005-The Road America board of directors and staff is proud to announce a three-year, five million dollar facility enhancement plan. Road America continuously makes improvements to meet racer and fan expectations. Significant in scope and investment, the new three-year plan will allow for additional track and facility opportunities, and dramatically affect paddock operations.
Expanded in 1990, the main paddock is being enlarged by 3.5 paved acres. The increase will provide additional space for race teams, transporters, vendors, and two new skid pad areas. The hill behind the current medical center will be excavated and graded to the west to gain paddock space. A larger medical center will be constructed in a new paddock location that will allow better access for racers, spectators and emergency medical personnel.
Every season, racecars and motorcycles reach new levels of performance. A thorough review by Road America reveals areas where track utility can be altered to meet these levels and provide the best possible safety features. Several track alterations will be made to the track without changing the original track design. Turns 3, 5, 6, 8 and 12 will be resurfaced with a high-wearing asphalt compound to improve wear and maintain the track's smooth, consistent asphalt surface. Modifications will also be made to the run-off area at turn 5 to make recovery faster and easier. Another notable safety change will be a reconfiguration of the Bill Mitchell bridge at turn 13 to accommodate a greater run-off area.
Road America's growth will also build on its potential as a year-round, multi-purpose facility. The expansion plans also include the development of Paddock Village, a 35-acre garage/workshop business park targeted toward small business owners and motorsports enthusiasts. The 2700 square foot units have an open, clear span and are expandable to 16,000 square feet. Tall entry clearance is accessed through 14-foot garage doors. Paddock Village membership will include Road America track and facility privileges.
Road America is a 628-acre, year-round motorsports facility which celebrated its 50th year in 2005. In addition to major world-class race events, Road America offers the Suzuki Supermoto School, corporate ATV and karting programs, and top-of-the-line hospitality. Special promotions are held throughout the year and can be found on-line. For more information visit www.roadamerica.com or call 800/365-7223.
Dr. Corkski
11-10-05, 03:06 PM
It would've been interesting to see the promotion level that was applied to San Jose focused on a Laguna Seca race.Put it this way, no one in the area knew about the MotoGP race, but the promotion for the SJ Auto-x went so overboard that even dead people knew about it. :gomer:
I'd hazard to say that most (half?) of the fans that showed up to RA in the heyday were actually "event" fans.
I'd say a large part of them were there as guests of Target, Motorola, Miller, Marlboro, etc.... The drop in the crowds coincided with the loss of the big name team and series sponsors.
Dr. Corkski
11-10-05, 03:10 PM
I'd say a large part of them were there as guests of Target, Motorola, Miller, Marlboro, etc.... The drop in the crowds coincided with the loss of the big name team and series sponsors.Did the sponsors force their guests to watch all the races on TV too? :gomer:
I'd say a large part of them were there as guests of Target, Motorola, Miller, Marlboro, etc.... The drop in the crowds coincided with the loss of the big name team and series sponsors.Let me clear something up, but I need to use a bit of discretion for myself...
All the chatter about the redhat brigade, guests of Marlboro, etc., that's supposedly for free tix to earl races, right? I have no firsthand knowledge of that to say for sure. What I DO know is that FOR THE MOST PART any of that stuff that went on back in the CART salad days, that was not FREE tix. A company that sponsored a car might, for example, offer discounted tix (only like $5.00 off) to employees, plus give them a tee, a hat, a carry bag, logo-ed earplugs, and maybe even a special hospitality tent set up for lunch.
Exceptions to this are that often BtoB bigwigs were given free tix, food with the Team hospitality, autograph/photo ops, etc., with the driver, etc., etc.
Guess what? Those tix were ALSO bought and paid for, by the sponsor.
I've been hearing on all boards some grumblings of the alledged Marlboro free tix thing with earl being common in CART of old. Not true. Bought and paid for. I am NOT pointing any fingers at anyone here, not implying that klang thinks they got in free, just need to get this off my chest.
That rambling out of the way, yes klang, the sponsors did bring in huge crowds with promotions.
OK, I guess I ain't that good at that discretion thing... :laugh:
G. I'm pretty sure you've posted that rant once before. :laugh:
I didn't mean to suggest the track wasn't paid for everyone that showed up. The point is the sponsors got the people to the track.
pedroskova
11-10-05, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by coolhand
very true, when is that last newtrack built for a major racing series that blew our minds?
Edmonton
Edmonton
Try to keep up. Edmonton sucked because you can't camp there and get drunk.
coolhand
11-10-05, 08:30 PM
People seem to attribute the first drop in attendance at RA when they raise GA prices, it got to expensive to just show up and camp out
Lizzerd
11-10-05, 08:32 PM
Um, when they told us to turn the clock back, they only meant an hour, not perpetually. ;) It's counterclockwise.
Oops... :o
What I meant was that it's "the other way" than usual.
Robstar
11-10-05, 08:54 PM
People seem to attribute the first drop in attendance at RA when they raise GA prices, it got to expensive to just show up and camp out
I don't get that... If you're gonna go, you're gonna go... They can't have raised the price that much... did they ?
I don't get that... If you're gonna go, you're gonna go... They can't have raised the price that much... did they ?
Cheap enough for me the one year I went......
Oh that was the LAST one! :cry:
Methanolandbrats
11-10-05, 10:22 PM
People seem to attribute the first drop in attendance at RA when they raise GA prices, it got to expensive to just show up and camp out
FWIW from old ticket stubs:
Friday 1990 $25 Sunday 1992 $30
Friday 1993 $15
Friday 1995 $20
Friday 2001 $25
Friday 2002 $25
Friday 2004 $25 Sunday 2004 $60
coolhand
11-10-05, 10:58 PM
FWIW from old ticket stubs:
Friday 1990 $25 Sunday 1992 $30
Friday 1993 $15
Friday 1995 $20
Friday 2001 $25
Friday 2002 $25
Friday 2004 $25 Sunday 2004 $60
I probably have the story wrong, then
I probably have the story wrong, thenNo, and I'm going off the top of my head here, so I could be wrong. I remember bringing the fam for, like 35 bux a head. Then I came up for tornado race ('03??) and getting gate-shocked. Then I brought the bro and g. for the last year. Brought extra cache that time. Paid for the deadbeat. :shakehead And paid for the bro, too.
:gomer:
I don't get that... If you're gonna go, you're gonna go... They can't have raised the price that much... did they ? Dude, this kinda supports my comment that RA attendance was a bunch of "event" go-ers. And die-hards, don't get me wrong.
Several peeps that I have talked to, In Real Life (fersomereason, I just don't like to e-brieviate that one), did go for the "festival".
Festival of speed vs. real racetrack, I dunno. I'm undecided on that. Have enjoyed them all.
'Cept Detroit. During Spacergate.
Well, maybe that was bc it was Detroit. Guess I still had fun...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.