View Full Version : Its RA, Vegas is replaced
coolhand
11-29-05, 07:28 AM
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/race/nov05/373875.asp
:thumbup:
Checking airfares on Continental.com as I type this.
:thumbup: Looks like I'll have to finally check out The Osthoff after all. :)
This doesn't bode well for the future of ovals in Champ Car though.
:thumbup: Looks like I'll have to finally check out The Osthoff after all. :)
This doesn't bode well for the future of ovals in Champ Car though.
hate to see them lose Vegas, as thats 1 of 2 races each year I would go to. I hope they don't take the Packers too lightly. If it is an issue why not run the race on Saturday instead? Hopefully the Packers will be out of town that weekend.
It's past our traditional time, but it's been beautiful weather here the past two years in September.
Well if its been good for 2 years then everything is just peachy.
:thumbup: for RA, :thumdown: for Vegas. I wish they'd explore going back to Gateway myself.
I did not see this coming. Gonna send in my vacation request early. :thumbup:
:thumbup: for RA, :thumdown: for Vegas. I wish they'd explore going back to Gateway myself.
Gateway is neat. I would like to see another race their too.
Warlock!
11-29-05, 08:55 AM
Checking airfares on Continental.com as I type this.
I'll have beers iced up for ya, dude... :thumbup:
chop456
11-29-05, 09:20 AM
:thumbup:
Checking airfares on Continental.com as I type this.
You can stay at my house. We have a pool and a pond. :D
Where does it say that Vegas is gone? I'm hearing that Champ Car is doing their damndest to make Vegas the last race instead of Mexico City.
Ted
Andrew Longman
11-29-05, 10:15 AM
Just told the wife to put it in the schedule. Woo Hoo!
Ted, it SAID Vegas was gone. Faced with a money losing event it seemed like an easy call to lose it at a place a majority in the series actually wanted to be. You may hate George B. but you can't ask him to operate at a big loss just to please "the fans." My guess is the deal went something like, "OK, you can have the place in Sept. but YOU lose the money!" I hope the late Sept. date is only a one time emergency deal and maybe a combo date with another series can be worked out for summer. The boss is correct, it isn't the weather that's critical anyway, it's the fans. If we don't show, ChampCar goes away...again. I can't see even a meager crowd in late Sept. I believe the fact that "school's in" has more to do with it than the Packers. I am SO pleased RA is back on the schedule, but I just can't shake a feeling of impending financial disaster. Felt the same looking at the shrinking "crowds" in '03 and '04.
Methanolandbrats
11-29-05, 10:26 AM
Ted, it SAID Vegas was gone. Faced with a money losing event it seemed like an easy call to lose it at a place a majority in the series actually wanted to be. You may hate George B. but you can't ask him to operate at a big loss just to please "the fans." My guess is the deal went something like, "OK, you can have the place in Sept. but YOU lose the money!" I hope the late Sept. date is only a one time emergency deal and maybe a combo date with another series can be worked out for summer. The boss is correct, it isn't the weather that's critical anyway, it's the fans. If we don't show, ChampCar goes away...again. I can't see even a meager crowd in late Sept. I believe the fact that "school's in" has more to do with it than the Packers. I am SO pleased RA is back on the schedule, but I just can't shake a feeling of impending financial disaster. Felt the same looking at the shrinking "crowds" in '03 and '04.The 04 crowd was up from 03. I had attendance figures from someone at the track, but I can't find the email. Give it a chance. As far as school goes, my kids will be "sick" that friday. :D
The 04 crowd was up from 03. I had attendance figures from someone at the track, but I can't find the email. Give it a chance.
Wasn't 03 the year of the monsoon? Not a good comparison IMO.
They really need to do something to get people to show up at the track or this will be a waste of $.
I have no figures, but as a fan can't you just "sense" how crowded the place is as soon as you walk into the paddock? They were weak. You've seen those 70k + crowds there, you know when things aren't right. I won't argue one yr. over another, but for many and various reasons "we the fans" have simply not supported the CC race at RA. The $$ losses prove that. The racing landscape has changed dramatically, and if I read KK correctly he's ALL for pleasing that loyal fan base, but I don't think he's changed his viewpoint toward picnic tables and outhouses. Neither have I. I'll be there! :)
:thumbup:
Checking airfares on Continental.com as I type this.
Beers and brats with mapguy :thumbup: :D
Methanolandbrats
11-29-05, 10:58 AM
I have no figures, but as a fan can't you just "sense" how crowded the place is as soon as you walk into the paddock? They were weak. You've seen those 70k + crowds there, you know when things aren't right. I won't argue one yr. over another, but for many and various reasons "we the fans" have simply not supported the CC race at RA. The $$ losses prove that. The racing landscape has changed dramatically, and if I read KK correctly he's ALL for pleasing that loyal fan base, but I don't think he's changed his viewpoint toward picnic tables and outhouses. Neither have I. I'll be there! :) Ya for sure the friday paddock is the barometer I use. 04 had more people and some pockets of excitement while 03 was like a funeral. I still say the thing can be rebuilt, but it will take a longterm commitment. As the IRL death spiral picks up speed, more and more "casual" fans will forget about the political squabbles and go the track. It will be "fun" again.
The key is going to be promotion...and from what I've seen CCWS should tackle it, not RA.
I live on the MN/WI border and there is never a word heard about anything at
RA around here. Sure, we aren't a major metro area, but there is 100,000 plus people in the area...who can do an RA trip and back in one day.
Couple years back there was an Atlantic team testing at a local stock car track, and that got more attention than all I've seen about Road America combined.
Maybe I'll start bugging local media types that there is more than stick and ball games in the sports world.
Steal some of ALMS promotion ideas, they even recruit fans to hang posters.
:thumbup:
Who's got room for me and mr anait, and four well-behaved kids? :p
I think we're gonna need a bigger tent... :cool:
I think it was stupid to drop the Vegas oval. :(
On the web site now! (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9867)
September 22-24?!?!?! Yikes! Remember the first USGP!? BRRRR!!!! :eek:
Trish...Johnson said they are "exploring other alternatives in the Las Vegas market that would be a better fit with our business model." To me that sounds like a street race. He also said they are looking for other oval opportunities as the '07 chassis design was penned with them in mind. It's all up to the fans.
I like ovals, not street racing. That doesn't mean I want an all oval series or that I want to get rid of everyone else's likes and only get what I want. It just means that ovals are what brings me in. I'm very angry right now.
jonovision_man
11-29-05, 11:49 AM
Dropping a poorly attended largely ignored oval race for the best road circuit in America is a good thing.
jono
Don't forget to mention it's a poorly attended largely ignored road course.
Ozarkian
11-29-05, 11:57 AM
On the web site now! (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9867)
September 22-24?!?!?! Yikes! Remember the first USGP!? BRRRR!!!! :eek:
I can see 3 types of tires behind the wall - dries, wets, and studded snows.
jonovision_man
11-29-05, 11:57 AM
Don't forget to mention it's a poorly attended largely ignored road course.
Fair enough. :)
But there's a lot more room to grow and build at RA than at LV, and it has huge appeal to the fans of American road racing. And from a strategic standpoint, it keeps it out of the hands of the IRL.
Not only that, it sends a clear signal that it's not all about street races, there's the desire to return to the natural terrain road circuits when it makes sense.
jono
Now that it's official, my motel reservation is made. :thumbup:
I don't actually like to attend oval races but I am in favor of the diversity of track types.
'Even though Champ Cars will not run at Las Vegas Motor Speedway in 2006, the series remains committed to racing on ovals and will continue looking for new oval venues to add to the schedule. The recently announced '07 Champ Car chassis package underscored that commitment by providing the ability to race Champ Cars on oval circuits.'
There just aren't that many ovals available to Champ Car these days.
They can run the ovals in Europe, I'll never get to attend them but I don't care. I just want some oval races on the schedule. I'd rather watch from the comforts of my home anyway.
Fair enough. :)
But there's a lot more room to grow and build at RA than at LV, and it has huge appeal to the fans of American road racing. And from a strategic standpoint, it keeps it out of the hands of the IRL.
Not only that, it sends a clear signal that it's not all about street races, there's the desire to return to the natural terrain road circuits when it makes sense.
jono
I don't have anything against Road America. I just don't know why they had to replace the Vegas race with it. I feel like they are trying to pit the road racing fans against the oval fans.
More ovals, please.
That said, we, the fans, win. Big.
See ya L1, turn 5, under the trees! :thumbup:
I don't have anything against Road America. I just don't know why they had to replace the Vegas race with it. I feel like they are trying to pit the road racing fans against the oval fans.
I'm guessing that they are choosing to loose money at RA instead of Vegas. They do seem to pay attention to what is said at the fan forums and not being at RA was a big deal to many fans. (just ask M&B :p )
Pretty much as I said - they can only afford so many loss leaders. Drop one and pick up another. It will be a great shame if this is the death knell for ovals in the series, but I'm happy to see RA back on the schedule.
IlliniRacer
11-29-05, 12:08 PM
My 9 yr old has been wanting to see a race at Road America. Looks like he will get his wish.
...and :thumbup: for a race at Gateway. Would like to see my Madison County taxes go to something besides the Class-Action Court Hell Hole.
Calendar is marked! I will do everything in my power to be there and bring a few friends and/or family with me! :D
I also enjoy ovals, but do not like the aero package that was used in Vegas. I also was not sure it was good for ChampCar to play 2nd fiddle to trucks. I wish we could add a few more ovals. Phoenix? Gateway? Fontana?
The only race I made in '05 was Milwaukee. (Yes, me and about 30 or 40 people in our section of the grandstand) We were hoping to make Cleveland or Montreal, but other obligations interferred. For '06, we will definitely be at Milwaukee, Road America and will again try and get to Cleveland.
Great news!
The Vegas oval race was an IRL-style race anyway. The cars are so aero-limited that it's not a driver's race at all.
Dirty Sanchez
11-29-05, 12:39 PM
The Vegas oval race was an IRL-style race anyway. The cars are so aero-limited that it's not a driver's race at all.absolutely. gas-and-steer off. happy its gone :thumbup:
san jose next :laugh:
jonovision_man
11-29-05, 12:43 PM
I don't have anything against Road America. I just don't know why they had to replace the Vegas race with it. I feel like they are trying to pit the road racing fans against the oval fans.
I don't think that's their intention. I'd imagine they figured losing money at RA is a better cause than losing money at LV. I don't think many CCWS fans liked the LV race, especially with the foot to the floor package they used there.
jono
I didn't like the knots in my stomach, but I did enjoy my trip there in 2004. It was the first race I ever attended because I wanted to support the oval. I had never been to the west coast and I had never travelled alone before.
High Sided
11-29-05, 12:50 PM
:thumbup: for RA, :thumdown: for Vegas. I wish they'd explore going back to Gateway myself.
Gateway is my hometrack, loved seeing the champcars there. great track for these cars
Bugger. That's the weekend of OSU/PSU in The Shoe and two weeks after a trip to AUS to witness UT's @ss kicking. I don't know if the wife will go for that. :( Damnit!
-Kevin
RHR_Fan
11-29-05, 01:44 PM
My bad. lol
Well this is flippin' sweet. Hopefully my friends and I can camp out there next year. :thumbup: Hey Cam, if you can handle the "cold" weather I'll bring you some food if we both attend.
~Nicole
Fitti Fan
11-29-05, 01:52 PM
You mean I might finally get to go to Road America?????
FCYTravis
11-29-05, 02:18 PM
Woo-****in-HOO!
Thank you, Steve Johnson, Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsythe, for realizing how important the natural terrain road courses are to Champ Car. I've criticized the direction of the series in this regard for a long time, and now it's time to say, you've done the right thing. We still need more, but this is a *huge* step in the right direction.
I'll be there...
You mean I might finally get to go to Road America?????You better! And bring friends!
Jervis Tetch 1
11-29-05, 02:23 PM
Vegas is better for me on a personal level as I live in LA, however I love RA and will try my best to make my triumphant return. :thumbup:
I still have Long Beach, Denver and Portland to go to.
This calls for a Tucker Max-style road trip :gomer:
jonovision_man
11-29-05, 02:25 PM
You better! And bring friends!
40,000 or so, preferably. :D
jono
oddlycalm
11-29-05, 03:36 PM
Champ Car president Steve Johnson said: "From my first day as Champ Car President, I have been inundated by our fans, sponsors and teams to find a way to get back to Road America. A major thumbs up to a series that actually listens and continues to place a high value on what the fans want to see. :thumbup:
That same willingness to listen also bodes well for an oval to be added in the future. Many fans want ovals and so do the drivers and teams. LV wasn't an ideal situation, and it lost money as well, so it was an easy decision to drop it for RA, but I expect we will see an oval added in the future. I hope they are wise enough to bring an aero package that will allow real racing if they do, and leave the gas-it-and-steer crap to the EARL.
oc
A major thumbs up to a series that actually listens and continues to place a high value on what the fans want to see. :thumbup:
That same willingness to listen also bodes well for an oval to be added in the future. Many fans want ovals and so do the drivers and teams. LV wasn't an ideal situation, and it lost money as well, so it was an easy decision to drop it for RA, but I expect we will see an oval added in the future. I hope they are wise enough to bring an aero package that will allow real racing if they do, and leave the gas-it-and-steer crap to the EARL.
oc
*cough* PHOENIX *cough*
I mapped it out...10 hours from Cbus. Boss, r u driving, or do we pile into DJ's van? ;) I figger leave after the OSU game on Sat and get there in time for pre-race fun on Sun. :)
-Kevin
Redwing
11-29-05, 05:15 PM
I'll be there with my handy garbage bag in case it rains. In celebration of this announcement, I went home and watched a replay of the '96 race.
Andrew Longman
11-29-05, 05:21 PM
04 was way down from 02. I was there and most of the concessions weren't even open in 04.
But I will be there again in 06. To show my support and once again just in case its the last time they'll be there. (Starting the feel like the recurring Celine Dion farewell tour... well may not exactly)
I am not too sad about losing Vegas. It wasn't shown live. It supported a truck race which in itself seemed wrong but the Truck fans are not CCWS fans. The package produced better racing this year than last but it is still not right.
I like ovals when they are done right with scary fast open wheel cars on a fairly flat track. Perhaps the 07 car will solve some of those problems and we can get back to CA or MIS or Gateway or Pheonix.
As for Vegas, I think a street race there, done right, could be a huge deal and another jewel in the series crown. It could be a glitzy gawdy festival of speed that becomes a signiture event.
CART T. Katz
11-29-05, 05:38 PM
i agree with everything that trish said and add on with this:
there was a potential to grow vegas which was a loss leader with the new chassis and better package to make it viable. considering the last years of road america, i'm not sure if will ever get out of the loss leader category.
and if we are talking fantasy situations with ovals on the schedule, i am all for overthrowing the open wheel race at gallatin county and replacing it with champcars. i wish there was some tortious interference thrown our way!
Press Conference Transcript (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9868)
Sean O'Gorman
11-29-05, 05:48 PM
hate to see them lose Vegas, as thats 1 of 2 races each year I would go to. I hope they don't take the Packers too lightly. If it is an issue why not run the race on Saturday instead? Hopefully the Packers will be out of town that weekend.
Well if its been good for 2 years then everything is just peachy.
Sorry, you don't know what Road America means.
This is about as great of an announcment as I can remember from the new owners. I'm so glad this happened that I think I'll have to try and make it to the race. :D
Sorry, you don't know what Road America means.
This is about as great of an announcment as I can remember from the new owners. I'm so glad this happened that I think I'll have to try and make it to the race. :D
had nothing bad to say against RA, purely disapointment that I cant go to Vegas in September next year for the race.
Sean O'Gorman
11-29-05, 06:49 PM
So go to Road America instead. :gomer:
stroker
11-29-05, 07:02 PM
:thumbup: for RA, :thumdown: for Vegas. I wish they'd explore going back to Gateway myself.
You an' me both, bro.
So go to Road America instead. :gomer:
beauty of vegas is that its in vegas. where a. i have a 2nd home and b. its vegas and not in the middle of nowhere.
Methanolandbrats
11-29-05, 07:14 PM
beauty of vegas is that its in vegas. where a. i have a 2nd home and b. its vegas and not in the middle of nowhere. Uh, last time I checked Vegas was in the middle of nowhere.
beauty of vegas is that its in vegas. where a. i have a 2nd home and b. its vegas and not in the middle of nowhere.
Thus the label "Event Fan". :rolleyes:
Dr. Corkski
11-29-05, 07:17 PM
Add a hateball tournament and I am set. :thumbup:
Uh, last time I checked Vegas was in the middle of nowhere.
It was about a twenty to forty minute drive from my hotel room. My hotel was a fifteen minute drive from the airport. I stayed on Freemont St.
Uh, last time I checked Vegas was in the middle of nowhere.
what? you allude to a metropolis in the center of a vast desert as being "in the middle of nowhere?" surely you jest!! :gomer:
Add a hateball tournament and I am set. :thumbup:
what we need is Tucker Death Mix in a Camelbak, a camp site, and a digital camcorder... :D
the hilarity (hateball) shall naturally ensue.
Methanolandbrats
11-29-05, 07:26 PM
It was about a twenty to forty minute drive from my hotel room. My hotel was a fifteen minute drive from the airport. I stayed on Freemont St. Planes land in Wisconsin now. Almost 1/2 of the airstrips are paved. There are hotels with running water and electricity within 40 minutes of the track. It is not Baffin Island.
Sean O'Gorman
11-29-05, 07:27 PM
Las Vegas may be in the middle of nowhere but I think Elkhart Lake is on the outer edges of nowhere. ;)
Planes land in Wisconsin now. Almost 1/2 of the airstrips are paved. There are hotels with running water and electricity within 40 minutes of the track. It is not Baffin Island.
I've always dreamed of going to Wisconsin.
Methanolandbrats
11-29-05, 07:29 PM
what? you allude to a metropolis in the center of a vast desert as being "in the middle of nowhere?" surely you jest!! :gomer:
From the air it looks like somebody dumped a pile of christmas lights on the moon.
I've always dreamed of going to Wisconsin.
interesting, I grew up dreaming about strippers and blow.
wait, we've got Pantera's Clubhouse here in town, I can save myself the trip :D
BOOM! Pool, bar and room reserved! Vacation account opened. I hope I'm still alive in Sept. of '06. I look forward to finally getting photos of Champcars bending into The Kink from an angle I've never been able to get before. (Thanks to the new bridge) Peeking through the branches from inside that turn doesn't really gave you a sense of how sharp that curve actually is, but you could sure tell who backed off and who didn't! :) ) Let's do all we can to pump this thing up on these boards and show our thanks for getting us back to Road America.
coolhand
11-29-05, 07:46 PM
*cough* PHOENIX *cough*
Hell yeah, now that RA is back PHEONIX is #1 i want added. A great oval, and a believe its a good market if done right.
Pheonix si the #5 largest metro area in the country now.
coolhand
11-29-05, 07:49 PM
i agree with everything that trish said and add on with this:
there was a potential to grow vegas which was a loss leader with the new chassis and better package to make it viable. considering the last years of road america, i'm not sure if will ever get out of the loss leader category.
and if we are talking fantasy situations with ovals on the schedule, i am all for overthrowing the open wheel race at gallatin county and replacing it with champcars. i wish there was some tortious interference thrown our way!
Vegas was not a proper oval for champ car. Its a NASCAR track. I think Pheonix, Fontana, MIS, Loudon, Gateway are the best oval options left.
CART T. Katz
11-29-05, 08:31 PM
Vegas was not a proper oval for champ car. Its a NASCAR track. I think Pheonix, Fontana, MIS, Loudon, Gateway are the best oval options left.
that's an unfair comment. the other five races have had the benefit of having the right aero package for their races, vegas has not. i think vegas could be a proper oval for champcar; it isn't insanely high banked and it's pretty wide as long as someone doesn't have their nose in your gearbox. :gomer:
IlliniRacer
11-29-05, 10:52 PM
Vegas was not a proper oval for champ car. Its a NASCAR track. I think Pheonix, Fontana, MIS, Loudon, Gateway are the best oval options left.
I think we can scratch Gateway off the list. :(
I sent the following email to Gateway this afternoon:
"Are there any plans to bring either the ChampCar World Series or the Indy Racing League back to Gateway?"
their response:
"As this time no plans for either. Potentially in the future we may look into getting the IRL race back. However, the last two years without it we have lost less money and are finally turning things around. Again, it is not totally due to that but if it's not broke.....
Champ Car I do not foresee coming back in the future. Probably not the answers you wanted but I am being honest! "
As a fan, it wasn't the answer I was hoping for. However, from a business sense, you can't blame them and I really appreciated their honesty.
I mapped it out...10 hours from Cbus. Boss, r u driving, or do we pile into DJ's van? ;) I figger leave after the OSU game on Sat and get there in time for pre-race fun on Sun.
If we're driving there won't be room for anything but luggage. :)
I'm glad we caught Vegas this year. It's a shame they never had a race with a proper wing package there.
Vegas was not a proper oval for champ car. Its a NASCAR track. I think Pheonix, Fontana, MIS, Loudon, Gateway are the best oval options left.
The banking is less than Michigan or Fontana. With a proper oval package it would have been fine.
CART T. Katz
11-29-05, 11:58 PM
someone on the cheerleading site called vegas "high banked". i had belcher mention that if vegas was "high banked" then so were martinsville and loudon, both banked at 12 degrees.
banking is just an excuse used by most fans for dumping the big ovals entirely. although unfortunate, there have been drivers that have been killed at road courses and street circuits as well. should we dump them for "safety" reasons also?
/rant
racer2c
11-30-05, 12:18 AM
The way I look at this is that there are dozens of top level ovals in the US for Champ Car to race at in the future, but there's only one Road America.
You can't call yourself America's premier road racing series and not race at America's best road race cirquit.
Once again Champ Car proved that they indeed listen to the fans. They gave the fans what they had been asking (some crying, some throwing tantrums) for.
The '07 car was made with ovals as a possibility. I'm sure if an oval race meets the criteria in the future, it will get on the schedule.
Now let's make sure we're all there so it stays on the schedule because it's not going to stay if it's a bust no matter how blue I turn from holding my breath.
Great news. :thumbup: I might have to make a return trip next year, but RA was much easier and cheaper when I lived in Chicago.
Good post r2c... there is only ONE Road America and they/ we have the better part of a year to try and make it a success.
Great news. :thumbup: I might have to make a return trip next year, but RA was much easier and cheaper when I lived in Chicago.
Good post r2c... there is only ONE Road America and they/ we have the better part of a year to try and make it a success.
The race is on one of my B-Days. Do any of you think that my wife will understand, if I want to go to RA instead of LV for this next year? I live on the left coast and I am happy to have RA back on the sched. even if that means losing LV! Ovals are fine, but if you ask any racer, would you rather go in circles for two hours, or turn right once in a while, they would prefer the latter and so would I!
Great news!!
coolhand
11-30-05, 02:18 AM
The banking is less than Michigan or Fontana. With a proper oval package it would have been fine.
correct me if i am wrong but the turns have a larger radius at MIS and fontana?
My only problem with high banking is that the series puts stupid wing packeges on the cars.
My hotel is booked for Road America.
Woo!
racer2c
11-30-05, 02:06 PM
The race is on one of my B-Days. Do any of you think that my wife will understand, if I want to go to RA instead of LV for this next year? I live on the left coast and I am happy to have RA back on the sched. even if that means losing LV! Ovals are fine, but if you ask any racer, would you rather go in circles for two hours, or turn right once in a while, they would prefer the latter and so would I!
Great news!!
You have more than one birthday a year? :)
Amanda B.'s Mom
11-30-05, 06:55 PM
This is great news for both fans and drivers. It will add to the series and separate the real drivers from the so-so drivers.
Having a former SCCA president as champ Car CEO is great.
KaBoom21
11-30-05, 07:12 PM
I just soiled myself.
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