Move Along, Move Along, Nothing To Worry About Here

[SurfaceUnits]

OLSON: Signs of the Times at Panther Racing
Written by: Jeff Olson Indianapolis, Ind. – 12/3/2005
http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/21046/


This should be a fun story, but it’s not.

This should be a column that gives everyone a smile and hope for the future, but it won’t.

This should be a column about Panther Racing using a clever idea to raise money for charity, but it’s not. It’s a clever idea to raise money to keep the company afloat, and the very fact that the idea is in use magnifies a disturbing off-season trend in Indianapolis.

Everthings swell in Gomerville :p

[Methanolandbrats]

Maybe those Panther guys should sell all that junk and buy some Lolas. Might be easier to find sponsorship in the other series :)

[dando]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26from%3DR10 %26fstype%3D1%26catref%3DC6%26satitle%3D4594672196 %26sacat%3D-1%2526catref%253DC6%26bs%3DSearch%26fsop%3D1%2526f soo%253D1%26coaction%3Dcompare%26copagenum%3D1%26c oentrypage%3Dsearch%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%26sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D43017%26f trt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26fvi %3D1&item=4594672196

Check the ID for the first (and only) bidder. :rofl:

-Kevin

[gjc2]

assbandit2004 is located in Canada, has been an eBay member for more than a year but has no feedback and has retracted bids twice.

George

[G.]

No one wants to buy that car for only $100k??

Thanks Tony.

[SurfaceUnits]

Two irl leeg championships and still worthless.

Oh yeah, "Hey Olson, welcome to ten years ago, you moron."

[coolhand]

"Honda’s nine-figure budget not only subsidized teams, it drove down sponsorship value. Non-Honda teams were approaching potential sponsors with what they thought was a reasonable figure. Potential sponsors told them they were being quoted a fraction of that figure by Honda teams."

[Andrew Longman]

"Honda’s nine-figure budget not only subsidized teams, it drove down sponsorship value. Non-Honda teams were approaching potential sponsors with what they thought was a reasonable figure. Potential sponsors told them they were being quoted a fraction of that figure by Honda teams."

That's actually incorrect and the truth is even worse.

Subsidizing teams doesn't drive down the value of the sponsorship. The market, not to cost side of the ledger determines the value of a sponsorship. Subsidies may relieve the burden to cover costs so teams don't HAVE to charge so much, but the value is determined by the market. If 711 and Jim Beam and such saw benefit in paying umpteen millions for the sponsorship then they would pay it and MA, BR et al would put the extra revenue in his pocket. Instead they got what they could.

For the other teams, they HAD to charge enough to cover their costs and the market wasn't willing to pay.

[oddlycalm]

Ignoring history has it's costs, and apparently arrogance is not an effective defense. :D

Apparently TG wasn't paying attention to what happened to Bruce McCaw, Cal Wells, etc. in CART when facing similar circumstances. Those were solid competitive teams and their loss left a big hole. Anyone that was paying attention predicted the same would happen with the EARL. Surprise, it did.

oc

[mapguy]

"Honda’s nine-figure budget not only subsidized teams, it drove down sponsorship value. Non-Honda teams were approaching potential sponsors with what they thought was a reasonable figure. Potential sponsors told them they were being quoted a fraction of that figure by Honda teams."

That's actually incorrect and the truth is even worse.

Subsidizing teams doesn't drive down the value of the sponsorship. The market, not to cost side of the ledger determines the value of a sponsorship. Subsidies may relieve the burden to cover costs so teams don't HAVE to charge so much, but the value is determined by the market. If 711 and Jim Beam and such saw benefit in paying umpteen millions for the sponsorship then they would pay it and MA, BR et al would put the extra revenue in his pocket. Instead they got what they could.

For the other teams, they HAD to charge enough to cover their costs and the market wasn't willing to pay.


Point is, earlier in the season Barnes commented that the amount of sponsorship $ from Jim Beam, 7-11. XM and Arca ex was barely enough to fund ONE car.

[Andrew Longman]

Point is, earlier in the season Barnes commented that the amount of sponsorship $ from Jim Beam, 7-11. XM and Arca ex was barely enough to fund ONE car.

As I said, the market sets the value of the sponsorship. :rolleyes:

You've got to assume MA would not leave money on the table. He would have taken more if he could get it.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Yeah the good, American name of Sam Hornish Jr. really attracts the buyers :rolleyes:

[JLMannin]

Ignoring history has it's costs, and apparently arrogance is not an effective defense. :D

Apparently TG wasn't paying attention to what happened to Bruce McCaw, Cal Wells, etc. in CART when facing similar circumstances. Those were solid competitive teams and their loss left a big hole. Anyone that was paying attention predicted the same would happen with the EARL. Surprise, it did.

oc

Yes, but the Gomerati were able to ignore logic and claim that the demise of the Wells team and Pacwest was due to inept CART management.

[SurfaceUnits]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Fsofocus%3Dbs%26sbrftog%3D1%26from%3DR10 %26fstype%3D1%26catref%3DC6%26satitle%3D4594672196 %26sacat%3D-1%2526catref%253DC6%26bs%3DSearch%26fsop%3D1%2526f soo%253D1%26coaction%3Dcompare%26copagenum%3D1%26c oentrypage%3Dsearch%26sargn%3D-1%2526saslc%253D2%26sadis%3D200%26fpos%3D43017%26f trt%3D1%26ftrv%3D1%26saprclo%3D%26saprchi%3D%26fvi %3D1&item=4594672196
-Kevin
Yo gomers, here is what a real car is worth:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Ferrari's president Luca di Montezemolo met with Pope Benedict XVI Monday and gave him a check for 950,000 ($1.1 million).

The money was raised from the sale of the 400th Enzo Ferrari, a car specially made to be auctioned for charity.

The top-of-the-line Enzo Ferrari was sold by Sotheby's for more than double the asking price and Montezemolo offered to donate the proceeds from the auction to humanitarian relief.

[dando]

Yo gomers, here is what a real car is worth:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Ferrari's president Luca di Montezemolo met with Pope Benedict XVI Monday and gave him a check for 950,000 ($1.1 million).

The money was raised from the sale of the 400th Enzo Ferrari, a car specially made to be auctioned for charity.

The top-of-the-line Enzo Ferrari was sold by Sotheby's for more than double the asking price and Montezemolo offered to donate the proceeds from the auction to humanitarian relief.
Somewhere out there Ferris Bueller grins. :D

-Kevin

[cart7]

As I said, the market sets the value of the sponsorship. :rolleyes:

You've got to assume MA would not leave money on the table. He would have taken more if he could get it.

Well, subsidies though, can create the illusion of a good market for the product in question even if their isn't one. If I look at the typical yen injected Honda team and take it for face value that those Primary sponsors are paying the same amount as non Honda teams then I'm mistaken. That's what the lemmings at TF argued for the past several years and now the truth is finally coming out and getting tossed in their face.

Potential sponsor B meets person from Jim Beam or 7-11 and then listens to them bragging at what a deal they're getting off the exposure from their being primary sponsor of Wheldon or Kanaan and that it's only costing them X amount of dollars. That X amount isn't anywhere near enough to run a team for a season. So potential sponsor B knows that the market is X amount to get primary sponsorship and that's on a winning team like AGR. In fact, I'll bet 7-11 isn't paying much more than they paid for the Indy only effort in 2002. I doubt that Argent paid much more last year than the previous year when they sponsored Danica in her Atlantics season.

Yes, the market is the driving factor in all this. No one's going to shell out the millions needed to run an earl team as a primary, there just isn't any ROI. The same could also be said about CCWS too. With a weak TV package the series is still quite aways away from financial independance from KK's checkbook. The big difference is KK has managed to cut costs to make things more affordable.

[racer2c]

:eek: For a second I thought I had stumbled across TF. :gomer:

[trauma1]

derickk daly on tv last night about panther, ouch that hurt
on WISH TV 8 last night.

talking about the sale of Hornish's car on eBay
"this is only going to prolong whatever closure is down the road. The professional teams always find a way to stay in business, the hobby teams go out of business. Now Panther needs to figure out which one they are."

[pchall]

:eek: For a second I thought I had stumbled across TF. :gomer:

If this was TF posters would be calling out Olson as a CART shill. ;)

[trauma1]

PDM gone also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and aguri ponies up the $48 mil for bernie, so no way do they give FAF $$$ :rofl:

Long time IRL campaigners PDM Racing look to have turned their attention away from the IRL IndyCar Series and will instead focus on the prestigious USAC Silver Crown sprint car series in 2006 with driver Aaron Pierce.

After only running the Indy 500 this year, an attempt that in itself was a joint venture with veteran Marty Roth, perennial underdogs PDM may have finally given up their unequal struggle to compete in the increasingly inaccessible IRL series. However the switch to the far less expensive Silver Crown Series will at least keep the fondly supported team in business on a far less precarious existence.

[cart7]

:eek: For a second I thought I had stumbled across TF. :gomer:

That place is getting very quiet lately. :gomer:

[tllips]

I got this (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051208.wxwhrace08/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto/) sent to me via Google.news.

FTG is not in a very strong position! Let him ROT!


Unfortunately for the IRL, it now faces an economic reality similar to the one that killed CART: Without the manufacturer money pouring in from Honda and Toyota, teams will have to make up the difference elsewhere. That means going to their sponsors for more cash, reducing the number of cars they field, or asking for a handout from George.


With the Indianapolis 500 set to become less than the "Greatest Spectacle in Racing" and the IRL's position weakening every day, George needs to swallow his pride and make some serious concessions to the Champ Car owners before it too late.

[Lizzerd]

I thought this was interesting...


While previous negotiations with the Champ Car owners failed to progress because George steadfastly insisted on maintaining complete control after a merger, that position is no longer viable.

You made your own bed, Tony, and you pissed in it.

[Kiwifan]

I would have used the word starting with "S" but maybe you're right, either way it's gotta leave him with that real "sick" feeling. :) :)

Later, Rusty.

[NismoZ]

Just read this, too...(rumor) Everybody pays for engines next season...EXCEPT AGR! That would make them real popular. :rolleyes:

[TKGAngel]

Just read this, too...(rumor) Everybody pays for engines next season...EXCEPT AGR! That would make them real popular. :rolleyes:

What does Mikey have on the Honda people to allow him to get away with that?

[Andrew Longman]

What does Mikey have on the Honda people to allow him to get away with that?

I suspect it simply the contract they signed to get him to move with them to the IRL. AGR was the linch pin Honda needed to make the move. I understand 06 is the last year of that contract.

If true, unless something phenomenally surprising happens everyone will need to pay full price in 07 and I just can't see anyone doing that. Even if they could find the sponsorship to cover it, why not take that sponsorship to a lower cost and more healthy (less ill?) CCWS?

Please don't say I don't know what indy means :gomer:

[SurfaceUnits]

From Dolans:

Indy 2005 vs. 2006

Removing Indy one-offs (they'll have to find money, even harder in 2006 then '05), CC participants, teams reducing car entrys (3 to 2) and teams that have lost IRL sponsorships, lets look at what Indy in 2006 could look like today and the challenges it will have to face in the hospitable IRL climate that the league has created.

2005:
1 Tony Kanaan (11) Andretti-Green Honda 227.566
2 Sam Hornish Jr (6) Penske Toyota 227.273
3 Scott Sharp (8 ) Fernandez Honda 227.126
4 Danica Patrick (16) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.004
5 Helio Castroneves (3) Penske Toyota 226.927
6 Dario Franchitti (27) Andretti-Green Honda 226.873
7 Vitor Meira (17) Rahal-Letterman Honda 226.848
8 Kosuke Matsuura (55) Super Aguri Fernandez Honda 226.397
9 Buddy Lazier (95) Panther Chevy 226.353
10 Tomas Enge (2) Panther Chevy 226.107
11 Tomas Scheckter (4) Panther Chevy 226.031
12 Bruno Junqueira (36) Newman-Haas Honda 225.704
13 Scott Dixon (9T) Ganassi Toyota 225.215
14 Adrian Fernandez (5) Mo Nunn Honda 225.120
15 Sebastien Bourdais (37) Newman-Haas Honda 224.955
16 Dan Wheldon (26) Andretti-Green Honda 224.308
17 Roger Yasukawa (24) Dreyer & Reinbold Honda 224.131
18 Bryan Herta (7) Andretti-Green Honda 223.972
19 Darren Manning (10) Ganassi Toyota 223.943
20 Richie Hearn (70) Sam Schmidt Chevy 222.707
21 Jeff Bucknum (44) Dreyer & Reinbold Honda 221.521
22 Alex Barron (51) Cheever Toyota 221.053
23 Kenny Brack (15) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.598
24 Ryan Briscoe Ganassi Toyota 224.080
25 Patrick Carpentier Cheever Toyota 222.803
26 Ed Carpenter Vision Toyota 221.439
27 Jaques Lazier Playa DEL Toyota 221.228
28 A.J. Foyt IV A.J. Foyt Toyota 220.442
29 Marty Roth Roth Chevy 219.497
30 Larry Foyt A.J. Foyt Toyota 219.396
31 Jeff Ward A.J. Foyt Toyota 219.396
32 Jimmy Kite Hemelgarn Toyota 218.565
33 Felipe Giaffone A.J. Foyt Toyota 217.645


After: (condensed)
1 Tony Kanaan (11) Andretti-Green Honda 227.566
2 Sam Hornish Jr (6) Penske Toyota 227.273
3 Scott Sharp (8 ) Fernandez Honda 227.126
4 Danica Patrick (16) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.004
5 Helio Castroneves (3) Penske Toyota 226.927
6 Dario Franchitti (27) Andretti-Green Honda 226.873
7 Kosuke Matsuura (55) Super Aguri Fernandez Honda 226.397
8 Scott Dixon (9T) Ganassi Toyota 225.215
9 Dan Wheldon (26) Andretti-Green (switch to Ganassi) Honda 224.308
10 Bryan Herta (7) Andretti-Green Honda 223.972
11 Kenny Brack (15) Rahal-Letterman (subbed for Rice) Honda 227.598
12 Ed Carpenter Vision Toyota 221.439
--------------


33 will be a snap! :eek:

================================================== =======
"When it comes to the IRL, having a p_ssy is much more beneficial than being one." - 2005 Indy 500 Loser, Dan Wheldon

[G.]

What does Mikey have on the Honda people to allow him to get away with that?Dario and Mikey are Honda employees. Don't know about the others, but you can bet that Weldon is not.

Surface, is that Weldon quote for real?? :eek:

[SurfaceUnits]

No, I was just verbalizing what all you haters have been trying to tell shoeboy for the last 6 months

[emjaya]

Long time IRL campaigners PDM Racing look to have turned their attention away from the IRL IndyCar Series and will instead focus on the prestigious USAC Silver Crown sprint car series in 2006 with driver Aaron Pierce.

PDM gone to race Silver Crown sprint cars.Hmmm.

33 cars,It's a snap.

POCONO

http://webpages.charter.net/lnowak/pocono81.htm (http://webpages.charter.net/lnowak/pocono81.htm)

http://webpages.charter.net/lnowak/Pocono81-2b.jpg

[Andrew Longman]

I used to go to the champ car race in Pocono every year when I had the money and a ride (Trenton too). In 81 I was just out of school and too poor to go. I didn't really understand much about the working, business and politics of the sport so I was shocked to read in the sports page the results of the 81 race. I couldn't understand how anyone could possibly think mixing in the "uprights" (as they were known) with Indycars was a good idea.

Still don't

[dando]

I used to go to the champ car race in Pocono every year when I had the money and a ride (Trenton too). In 81 I was just out of school and too poor to go. I didn't really understand much about the working, business and politics of the sport so I was shocked to read in the sports page the results of the 81 race. I couldn't understand how anyone could possibly think mixing in the "uprights" (as they were known) with Indycars was a good idea.

Still don't
Dumbest idea evar. Outside of the EARL itself.

-Kevin

[matthole]

The crapwagon didn't sell. Have to wonder what the reserve was, and how they arrived at that. Wishful thinking is my guess.

Looks like the payroll will have to be trimmed to zero at Panther now. :thumbup: :cool:

[SurfaceUnits]

People just don't know what 2 IRL championships mean. :cry: Or maybe we do. :rolleyes:

[Walter Zoomie]

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/1859/1965irpkneppersniderhall4wr.jpg :D

[spinner26]

We have a date http://www.keyliquidators.com/auction_detail.php?ID=82502

[cart7]

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/1859/1965irpkneppersniderhall4wr.jpg

Eerie. Precurser to the 2007 earl race at the new Iowa oval track? Tony resorting to museum cars to fill earl field? :eek: