So what DO you think TG will do?

[Andrew Longman]

From another thread:

From Dolans:

Indy 2005 vs. 2006

Removing Indy one-offs (they'll have to find money, even harder in 2006 then '05), CC participants, teams reducing car entrys (3 to 2) and teams that have lost IRL sponsorships, lets look at what Indy in 2006 could look like today and the challenges it will have to face in the hospitable IRL climate that the league has created.

2005:
1 Tony Kanaan (11) Andretti-Green Honda 227.566
2 Sam Hornish Jr (6) Penske Toyota 227.273
3 Scott Sharp (8 ) Fernandez Honda 227.126
4 Danica Patrick (16) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.004
5 Helio Castroneves (3) Penske Toyota 226.927
6 Dario Franchitti (27) Andretti-Green Honda 226.873
7 Vitor Meira (17) Rahal-Letterman Honda 226.848
8 Kosuke Matsuura (55) Super Aguri Fernandez Honda 226.397
9 Buddy Lazier (95) Panther Chevy 226.353
10 Tomas Enge (2) Panther Chevy 226.107
11 Tomas Scheckter (4) Panther Chevy 226.031
12 Bruno Junqueira (36) Newman-Haas Honda 225.704
13 Scott Dixon (9T) Ganassi Toyota 225.215
14 Adrian Fernandez (5) Mo Nunn Honda 225.120
15 Sebastien Bourdais (37) Newman-Haas Honda 224.955
16 Dan Wheldon (26) Andretti-Green Honda 224.308
17 Roger Yasukawa (24) Dreyer & Reinbold Honda 224.131
18 Bryan Herta (7) Andretti-Green Honda 223.972
19 Darren Manning (10) Ganassi Toyota 223.943
20 Richie Hearn (70) Sam Schmidt Chevy 222.707
21 Jeff Bucknum (44) Dreyer & Reinbold Honda 221.521
22 Alex Barron (51) Cheever Toyota 221.053
23 Kenny Brack (15) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.598
24 Ryan Briscoe Ganassi Toyota 224.080
25 Patrick Carpentier Cheever Toyota 222.803
26 Ed Carpenter Vision Toyota 221.439
27 Jaques Lazier Playa DEL Toyota 221.228
28 A.J. Foyt IV A.J. Foyt Toyota 220.442
29 Marty Roth Roth Chevy 219.497
30 Larry Foyt A.J. Foyt Toyota 219.396
31 Jeff Ward A.J. Foyt Toyota 219.396
32 Jimmy Kite Hemelgarn Toyota 218.565
33 Felipe Giaffone A.J. Foyt Toyota 217.645


After: (condensed)
1 Tony Kanaan (11) Andretti-Green Honda 227.566
2 Sam Hornish Jr (6) Penske Toyota 227.273
3 Scott Sharp (8 ) Fernandez Honda 227.126
4 Danica Patrick (16) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.004
5 Helio Castroneves (3) Penske Toyota 226.927
6 Dario Franchitti (27) Andretti-Green Honda 226.873
7 Kosuke Matsuura (55) Super Aguri Fernandez Honda 226.397
8 Scott Dixon (9T) Ganassi Toyota 225.215
9 Dan Wheldon (26) Andretti-Green (switch to Ganassi) Honda 224.308
10 Bryan Herta (7) Andretti-Green Honda 223.972
11 Kenny Brack (15) Rahal-Letterman (subbed for Rice) Honda 227.598
12 Ed Carpenter Vision Toyota 221.439
--------------


33 will be a snap!

What's more important to him and the IRL? Preserving history and running the 500 with 33 cars (or something at least close to it), or letting another series and spec run to fill the field. The latter has sorta happen many years ago when they filled out a few USAC races with Silver Crown roadsters.

Its a long way from 12 to 33

[G.]

Honda pwns AGR, AGR pwns the earl.

Time for a new Vision, a new league. FTG is no longer in control. Meltdown 2.0 coming soon.

[dando]

I can't fathom how Indy will get to 33 cars this year. IMO, it'll be difficult to get to 24 let alone 33. Perhaps this will be the final straw, and folks will finally see the emperor and his new clothes for what they. However, never say never as long as the cokehead is in charge. :shakehead

-Kevin

[rosawendel]

well, if they're truly playing to the old CART script, the next move will to be to dump money into the series to prop it up, whilst waiting for salvation. how big is anton's wallet these days?

[racer2c]

Thus begins the inevitable "33 is only a number" era. After a few years of 20 cars, the gomers will never remember.

[tllips]

Ten Rows of 2 cars taking the green??? :shakehead

[NismoZ]

I know little, but won't Anton's wallet be thicker once Toyota "buys" it's way out? That deal is being negotiated as we speak. I see Honda getting a whole slug of Toyota cash from Anton and the boys to make sure the number balloons at the proper time. Remember 33 is only a number, but way more important than the quality of the field. That number can be bought. Once.

[Gnam]

If FTG made a rule change to allow other spec cars (Lolas, Reynard, IPS, HERTZ rentals...), when would such an announcement have to be made to give teams time to organize?

[dando]

If FTG made a rule change to allow other spec cars (Lolas, Reynard, IPS, HERTZ rentals...), when would such an announcement have to be made to give teams time to organize?
Weekend b4 the race? :gomer: ;)

I would say 6 mos. would be the minimum time necessary to field a team from the ground up...unless it's a run what ya brung type field. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[DjDrOmusic]

Ten Rows of 2 cars taking the green??? :shakehead

Now now, let's get the numbers right, 6 rows of 2!! ;) :D

Why do I have a feeling that TG will open up the field to IPS cars and wave the 3 year rule so that older cars can compete. That may get them 20 cars.

[cameraman]

Ignoring the cost of the engine itself, what does it take to convert a Toyota or Chevy powered chassis to a Honda powered one? Are they all built to a common spec or is it major surgery?

I think FTG will probably support these folks with enough cash so they can send a couple/three cars to the race:

Dreyer & Reinbold
Sam Schmidt
Playa
A.J. Foyt
Marty Roth
Hemelgarn

What else can he do? You know he is going to get his 33.

And 15+ of them are going to be running 10-20 laps down at the end of the race
:shakehead

[TKGAngel]

Ignoring the cost of the engine itself, what does it take to convert a Toyota or Chevy powered chassis to a Honda powered one? Are they all built to a common spec or is it major surgery?

I think FTG will probably support these folks with enough cash so they can send a couple/three cars to the race:

Dreyer & Reinbold
Sam Schmidt
Playa
A.J. Foyt
Marty Roth
Hemelgarn

What else can he do? You know he is going to get his 33.

And 15+ of them are going to be running 10-20 laps down at the end of the race
:shakehead

Tony George: funding mediocrity since 1996. And the TV ratings will probably continue their nose dive. Shoot, will ABC even broadcast the race this year, or will it get shifted to one of the ESPNs?

[fourrunner]

I think what you have to remember is that if Tony is going to be propping up over half the field at Indy, the Press this year will not overlook that

If no Champ Car Drivers make an appearance, then the field will be populated by "wankers" at best. If you add that to the 5 or 6 "wankers" racing in the core of the series, then the Press will really howl

The negative publicity certainly won't help ... especially if 2/3 of the field is non competetive

AutoRacing1.com had a "rumor" where Honda is only giving free engines to Andretti/ Green, and Danica Patrick ... everyone else must pay, so if Tony is using Toyota "settlement" money to fill the field, it will essentially be flushing that money down the toilet ...

and the IRL attendance AFTER INDY, will dwindle to nothing !

[Cam]

Tony George: funding mediocrity since 1996. And the TV ratings will probably continue their nose dive. Shoot, will ABC even broadcast the race this year, or will it get shifted to one of the ESPNs?

Nope WE! All those newly created wimmin Danicle fans will be glued to their TV's in anticipation of the next dramatic episode of "When the Danimal turns left" :gomer:

[Fio1]

I'm sure Schmidt will have a car in the race. I'm sure Foyt will run 1 or 2. I'm sure Rahal will run Brack again. I'm sure Ganassi will run 3 cars at Indy. I'm sure Enge and Scheckter will land somewhere as well. Then, you know Yasukawa will be back for at least Motegi & Indy with Honda backing. So, there will be a good 20-24 cars. But, no where near the 33! Remember when there were 45 cars looking to qualify 4-5 years ago? What a sad state of affairs :shakehead

And ironically enough, Champcars is booming! :laugh: :thumbup:

[cart7]

I saw another rumour that said Honda may have their own 3 car team made up with drivers from the Formula Nippon series. :laugh:

Rack home Aglain in Rindiana. :gomer:

[RichK]

Tony George: funding mediocrity since 1996. And the TV ratings will probably continue their nose dive. Shoot, will ABC even broadcast the race this year, or will it get shifted to one of the ESPNs?

It'll be on ESPN 8 (The Ocho).

[Andrew Longman]

I know little, but won't Anton's wallet be thicker once Toyota "buys" it's way out? That deal is being negotiated as we speak. I see Honda getting a whole slug of Toyota cash from Anton and the boys to make sure the number balloons at the proper time. Remember 33 is only a number, but way more important than the quality of the field. That number can be bought. Once.

What do I know, but if I was Toyota's lawyer I wouldn't be paying too much to buy out the contract. A) How many teams even wanted to use their motor anyway B) A lot of the contract was a commitment to buy time on broadcasts and other tie ins. Fine buy the time and sell it off, even at a loss. c) T could likely argue that the IRL ratings were not what they were promised in the first place.

The last thing T wants to do is overpay and have TG just hand the money to H to supply the field.

Besides Toyota has more money and lawyers than TG. They can just tell him to pound sand and try to get it back in court. He's likely net $.05 on the dollar even if he won.

[spinner26]

Ten Rows of 2 cars taking the green??? :shakehead

Things change over time, you must adapt to change. At least that is what I have been told over the years. :laugh:

[skaven]

He'll continue in his copycat ways and spend as much as it takes to get the grids on the field like the last year of CART in 2003 under Pook. They will limp through and announce new specs that will reduce cost, etc.

KK has laid out a blueprint to save a series. There's no reason Honda couldn't execute it. But if this whole mess is about the idiot grandson being in charge, he'll find a way to monkey wrench it. :p

We'll see. We know they'll have a condensed schedule. Here's to another year of condensed grids and attendance. Poor :cry: :gomer: .

[JLMannin]

How many IPS cars are there? Enough to use as field-fillers to get to 33?

[trish]

Honda's paying the bills now. They'll get 33.

[Kink]

I only hope there is truly a total meltdown.

tg deserves nothing less.

The media has the potential to expose the dip***** that was given everything, and if there is continued dumbing down of the field (ie: IPS crapwagons) etc., the humiliation should be relentless.

I loved what the World Class Indy 500 was all about, but the *****head diminished it's value and should go down for it.

[Andrew Longman]

How many IPS cars are there? Enough to use as field-fillers to get to 33?

I doubt it. Why would ANYONE run IPS next year when Atlantics is an alternative?

[RTKar]

Ignoring the cost of the engine itself, what does it take to convert a Toyota or Chevy powered chassis to a Honda powered one? Are they all built to a common spec or is it major surgery?

I think FTG will probably support these folks with enough cash so they can send a couple/three cars to the race:

Dreyer & Reinbold
Sam Schmidt
Playa
A.J. Foyt
Marty Roth
Hemelgarn

What else can he do? You know he is going to get his 33.

And 15+ of them are going to be running 10-20 laps down at the end of the race
:shakehead

Agreed, they'll cobble together enough cars to make up the field, turn a blind eye to safety and regulations if need be to save the sanctity of 33. It's too much of a PR nightmare to not have a full field. Expect 10-12 cars to take a few laps and develop "mechanical problems not engine related". tg's check book will be taking a hit this year.

[jonovision_man]

Honda's paying the bills now. They'll get 33.

Actually the reverse is true.

Honda was paying the bills for a few teams, to make sure AGR got their 1-2-3-4's and a Honda team would win the championship.

Now that Honda are guaranteed to win every race and the championship, they have no reason to continue to do so, other than for the good of the series.

Now you have BB asking them to cut what Honda charges the teams for engines, which digs into their bottom line... I don't see where Honda is going to swallow losing money on engines AND propping up a bunch of teams on the grid.

18+ regulars and 33 at Indy is going to be TG's wallet, not Honda's.

jono

[TKGAngel]

Nope WE! All those newly created wimmin Danicle fans will be glued to their TV's in anticipation of the next dramatic episode of "When the Danimal turns left" :gomer:

Better yet, how bout Lifetime? The Indy 500 followed by the world premiere of the Danica Patrick Lifetime made for TV movie, starring Tiffani Amber Thiessen as Danica.

[Winston Wolfe]

....starring Tiffani Amber Thiessen as Danica.

Somehow, I just dont think that 5 point harness is gonna fit ! :D
And probably have to have alot more of the "driver in the pit \ team trailer \ post race discussion" sequences, which allow the suit to be strategically zipped down to a certain level...
Sounds like a grand plan....

[manic mechanic]

Somehow, I just dont think that 5 point harness is gonna fit ! :D
And probably have to have alot more of the "driver in the pit \ team trailer \ post race discussion" sequences, which allow the suit to be strategically zipped down to a certain level...
Sounds like a grand plan....

This from a marketing guy...I hope the gomerati aren't listening!! :laugh:

manic

[SurfaceUnits]

The Lamentations of Anton "Tony" Hulman:

I hated all the things I had toiled for under the sun, because I must leave them to the one who comes after me. And who knows whether he will be a wise man or a fool? Yet he will have control over all the work into which I have poured my effort and skill under the sun. So my heart began to despair over all my toilsome labor under the sun. For a man may do his work with wisdom, knowledge and skill, and then he must leave all he owns to someone who has not worked for it.

[JohnHKart]

Seems like we go through this every year the past few years and then magically there are 33 cars on the grid.

John

[cameraman]

1 Tony Kanaan (11) Andretti-Green Honda 227.566
2 Sam Hornish Jr (6) Penske Toyota 227.273
3 Scott Sharp (8 ) Fernandez Honda 227.126
4 Danica Patrick (16) Rahal-Letterman Honda 227.004
5 Helio Castroneves (3) Penske Toyota 226.927
6 Dario Franchitti (27) Andretti-Green Honda 226.873
7 Kosuke Matsuura (55) Super Aguri Fernandez Honda 226.397
8 Scott Dixon (9T) Ganassi Toyota 225.215
9 Dan Wheldon (26) Andretti-Green (switch to Ganassi) Honda 224.308
10 Bryan Herta (7) Andretti-Green Honda 223.972
11 Kenny Brack (15) Rahal-Letterman (subbed for Rice) Honda 227.598
12 Ed Carpenter Vision Toyota 221.439

And now there are 13:


Felipe Giaffone will be in the seat of the No. 14 ABC Supply Co. Honda-powered Dallara in the 2006 IndyCar Series season for A.J. Foyt Enterprises.

Only 20 more to go.....

[trish]

Has Toyota actually announced their exit or did they just slink away quietly?

[trish]

US A1GP Team to enter a car at Indy. http://www.a1gp.com/news/index.php?flashNavId=1&newsid=96

[NismoZ]

Whoa...Foyt finally has a driver!

[Insomniac]

Actually the reverse is true.

Honda was paying the bills for a few teams, to make sure AGR got their 1-2-3-4's and a Honda team would win the championship.

Now that Honda are guaranteed to win every race and the championship, they have no reason to continue to do so, other than for the good of the series.

Now you have BB asking them to cut what Honda charges the teams for engines, which digs into their bottom line... I don't see where Honda is going to swallow losing money on engines AND propping up a bunch of teams on the grid.

18+ regulars and 33 at Indy is going to be TG's wallet, not Honda's.

jono

They can cut costs now. Engine development is unnecessary. However, i do not see them losing money. Someone else will be taking the loss to fill the field. Good thing TG still has the Brickyard 400.

[Insomniac]

Better yet, how bout Lifetime? The Indy 500 followed by the world premiere of the Danica Patrick Lifetime made for TV movie, starring Tiffani Amber Thiessen as Danica.

Get the REAL Danica. Winnie Cooper!

[Insomniac]

US A1GP Team to enter a car at Indy. http://www.a1gp.com/news/index.php?flashNavId=1&newsid=96

They made it official: http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9465