AR1, Your Old Favorite, Says... (Grand Am Edition)

[theunions]

Pacific Coast Motorsports did not show up at Daytona this week.


Are they running the GA series or not?
And is Dalziel driving for them if they are?

No they did, yes and yes.

From Thursday:

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/grandam/2006/dt/grandam-2006-dt-lr-0139.jpg

I believe that's him in the car.

[coolhand]

Well, if the rumor is TWO new drivers at PKV and one of them is Legge, and the other ISN'T Briscoe...how could the 2nd NOT be Pantano? I understand just what you mean when you say Legge's value could fall with a poor Atlantic season, but it wouldn't make her any SLOWER, would it? Yes, it is pathetic when you think that Briscoe or Pantano or even Lyons wouldn't get the ride despite the fact that they are quite a bit faster.

a legge with brisco/pantano pairing at PKV will be pretty lame IMO especially after Vasser/CdM.

[Spicoli]

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/grandam/2006/dt/grandam-2006-dt-lr-0139.jpg



Holy poopnuts, is that thing FUGLY or what? :saywhat:

BARF

[Ziggy]

seanO, daveL mode on///

But the business plan is excellent, and by golly, that means they rawk :gomer:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Sorry, I forgot that I have to have been around racing for 50 years before my opinion is valid. :rolleyes:

[SteveH]

No need to apologize, even a newbie could see that thing is pitiful. :gomer:

[coolhand]

Sorry, I forgot that I have to have been around racing for 50 years before my opinion is valid. :rolleyes:

I don't think thats what anyone is saying. Grand Am sucks.

[RTKar]

That thing is more than pitiful, it's an abomination to the defintion of "race car". It's like something you'd find at an amusement park race car kiddie ride. You know, where the kids think they're driving and the car's on a rail...butt ugly.

[Clown]

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/grandam/2006/dt/grandam-2006-dt-lr-0139.jpg



Holy poopnuts, is that thing FUGLY or what? :saywhat:

BARF
First thing I though too.
Then I saw the Pontiac badge. Makes sense.

[NismoZ]

I look forward far more to seeing the new R-10 and the Penske LMP2 Spyder and a bigger GT1 group in ALMS but you are both blind and in denial if you don't sense the popularity and growth of the DPs. Yes they are ugly and slow when compared to our concept of open cockpit prototype racing sportscars but those guys must be doing something right because 40 of those things in a big race with MANY of the best race drivers on the planet indicates an important change in racing history. My guess is "affordability" has finally paid off? So, nobody goes to the races, TV isn't on the radar and a whole litany of other negatives can be dredged up, but it is hard to argue with success. I hope our criticisms aren't just jealousy in disguise and Sebring can continue to be a more important event than Daytona. PS...how DO all these teams afford to run and hire top drivers? They ARE getting paid, aren't they? Really, are the France billions totally running this show?

[NismoZ]

I read where 14 HRL guys will run the Rolex24. (If Meira gets in and you include Cheever, Fernandez and Tony Stewart.) The drivers ALL talk about it in glowing detail making the whole thing sound like an old home week, a reunion party of sorts, or the salvation of their careers. I like the line-up for the PCM team asked about above...Figge, Daziel, Fogarty and Empringham. Wouldn't be opposed to them actually winning! Even Penske's guys are in one of the Porsche powered cars. Think the FACTORY doesn't want to win this thing? All very interesting, impressive and educational. (Heard Chad McQueen in his GT3 had a big hit out of the chicane and is in serious condition.)

[cameraman]

No they did, yes and yes.
I believe that's him in the car.

So why is there no time listed for the #89 car in any of the eight sessions?

They never posted a lap? :confused:

[Rocketdoc]

I look forward far more to seeing the new R-10 and the Penske LMP2 Spyder and a bigger GT1 group in ALMS but you are both blind and in denial if you don't sense the popularity and growth of the DPs. Yes they are ugly and slow when compared to our concept of open cockpit prototype racing sportscars but those guys must be doing something right because 40 of those things in a big race with MANY of the best race drivers on the planet indicates an important change in racing history. My guess is "affordability" has finally paid off? So, nobody goes to the races, TV isn't on the radar and a whole litany of other negatives can be dredged up, but it is hard to argue with success. I hope our criticisms aren't just jealousy in disguise and Sebring can continue to be a more important event than Daytona. PS...how DO all these teams afford to run and hire top drivers? They ARE getting paid, aren't they? Really, are the France billions totally running this show?


“I look forward far more to seeing the new R-10 and the Penske LMP2 Spyder and a bigger GT1 group in ALMS but you are both blind and in denial if you don't sense the popularity and growth of the DPs. Yes they are ugly and slow when compared to our concept of open cockpit prototype racing sportscars but those guys must be doing something right because 40 of those things in a big race with MANY of the best race drivers on the planet indicates an important change in racing history. My guess is "affordability" has finally paid off? So, nobody goes to the races, TV isn't on the radar and a whole litany of other negatives can be dredged up, but it is hard to argue with success. I hope our criticisms aren't just jealousy in disguise and Sebring can continue to be a more important event than Daytona. PS...how DO all these teams afford to run and hire top drivers? They ARE getting paid, aren't they? Really, are the France billions totally running this show?”

One could expand your reasoning for the apparent success for DP and the France’s formula further, albeit it somewhat stretching the point to the extreme, by creating a formula that can be met by clothing street cars in ugly bodywork, using even more choked off engines (say, 2.0 liter motorcycle engines, sucking through McDonald’s straws) thus assuring extraordinary reliability and commonality of performance, thus attracting even more fans that couldn’t care less as to the mechanical aspects of the cars, or are there for anything more than watching a little rubbin’ and crashin’.

Of course, with that formula, instead of having just 40 cars on the grid, you could easily have 60-100 cars ready for the green. You could probably schedule races weekly… and at local oval tracks; that should satisfy the even more ‘Merican racin’ oriented fans.

Of course I’m being factitious to the edge, but my ‘brand” of motorsports involves absolutely beautiful cars that follow the dictum of “form follows function”, the mechanical (engine, gearbox, construction uniqueness) configuration thereof, the incredible performance levels, the newest technologies being introduced by necessity of the competition, the performance of very high level drivers, along with those on their way there, and more so than anything, having the car designer design the racecar rather than the sanctioning body.

“Affordability”

Having a son who is continually trying to find a reliable “patron” to assume some of his racing aspirations, affordability is certainly a factor to consider. But with your own assessment: “So, nobody goes to the races, TV isn't on the radar and a whole litany of other negatives can be dredged up, but it is hard to argue with success.”
It sounds more like a non sequitur than a definition of “success”.

“I hope our criticisms aren't just jealousy in disguise and Sebring can continue to be a more important event than Daytona. PS...how DO all these teams afford to run and hire top drivers? They ARE getting paid, aren't they? Really, are the France billions totally running this show?”

I really don’t think that the criticisms are based on “jealousy”; more like disappointment that racing has been taken over by some P. T. Barnum’s”, as in the France’s continually “dumbing down” the product, knowing that there’s more people out there that covet rubbin’ and crashin’ than would ever know, or care, about real racing.

As for drivers and teams getting paid, of course there’s a commercial aspect even to the Grand American series. The differences I see is between the France formula and the European type of formula is that in the France series, there’s some “factory support” in the engine area, but in the European LeMans and the ALMS series, the “factories” are deeply involved, both financially and in the overall engineering.
Audi, Maserati, Ferrari and Porsche maximize their exposure right into their marketing, and it really means something, thus the greater financial commitments.

Ya’ see, as an old racecar driver and the father of one who does this stuff for a living, rubbin’ ain’t so bad, but crashin’ stinks.

[cameraman]

So I should boycott every race around here that isn't ALMS?

The Miata MX5 guys shouldn't be allowed to exist because they are a spec series? What a load of crap. They are racing just as much as the R10 drivers are racing.

They built a track here and I am going to all the races. I am going to the ALMS race and the Karting championship and every damn thing inbetween. I am going to watch AMA bikes, Speed World whatever, Grand Am, Historics, AHRMA vintage motorcycles, Miata's and anything else that shows up with tires and an engine.

You can sit home and sulk about Audi, Maserati, Ferrari and Porsche not running in the 125cc Karting series, I am going to go watch the race.

[theunions]

So why is there no time listed for the #89 car in any of the eight sessions?

They never posted a lap? :confused:

Just picking session #8 at random, I see them listed 16th with a 1:45.536 (121.437 mph).

[coolhand]

So I should boycott every race around here that isn't ALMS?

The Miata MX5 guys shouldn't be allowed to exist because they are a spec series? What a load of crap. They are racing just as much as the R10 drivers are racing.

They built a track here and I am going to all the races. I am going to the ALMS race and the Karting championship and every damn thing inbetween. I am going to watch AMA bikes, Speed World whatever, Grand Am, Historics, AHRMA vintage motorcycles, Miata's and anything else that shows up with tires and an engine.

You can sit home and sulk about Audi, Maserati, Ferrari and Porsche not running in the 125cc Karting series, I am going to go watch the race.

You forgot to mention watching your kids play Grand turismo

[cameraman]

Just picking session #8 at random, I see them listed 16th with a 1:45.536 (121.437 mph).

If you go to the GrandAmerican web site and click on 2006 Test Days at Daytona you will get the 2005 results which makes the #89 hard to find :rolleyes:

[Rocketdoc]

So I should boycott every race around here that isn't ALMS?

"The Miata MX5 guys shouldn't be allowed to exist because they are a spec series? What a load of crap. They are racing just as much as the R10 drivers are racing.

They built a track here and I am going to all the races. I am going to the ALMS race and the Karting championship and every damn thing inbetween. I am going to watch AMA bikes, Speed World whatever, Grand Am, Historics, AHRMA vintage motorcycles, Miata's and anything else that shows up with tires and an engine.

You can sit home and sulk about Audi, Maserati, Ferrari and Porsche not running in the 125cc Karting series, I am going to go watch the race."

Boycott… of course not.

I was just offering my opinion as to the differences between what the France’s have done to America road racing and what the Euro-American ALMS does, and what it deserves.

It is my humble, but practiced opinion, that although the MX5 races are exciting to watch, the requisites between them and very high performance, very high speed, current state-of-the-art race cars are considerably far apart.
That’s not to say that MX5 guys aren’t race car drivers; they are, but what they are required to do is vastly different.

No race car driver starts out in a 650-800 HP super racecar; if they did, they’d be a lot less racecar drivers around.

Somehow, you’ve taken my comments as a negative to those who don’t run in the highest levels of competition. How you’ve you came to that conclusion, frankly, is beyond me.

I started in Karts, (actually, I started professionally, in Drag Racing) then on to sports cars and formula cars, then to designing race cars.
I carry no sense of superiority with one over the other, other than I don’t like the sport I’ve spent most of my life in being brought down to the lowest common denominator, just for the buck.


BTW, I also watch everything I can that has an engine in it, and I really don’t sulk about all of those racecars not competing with 125cc Karts.

As a kid, I used to drive lay-down, aerodynamic enduro twins that could run down the Pocono straight at better than 150 MPH, and believe me, I wouldn’t want an Audi A8 or A10, Ferrari, or any big, bad car next to me.

May I offer this?

Relax, no one’s trying to pigeon hole your kind of racing as “not racing”; due everything that racing means.

[extramundane]

I look forward far more to seeing...bigger GT1 group in ALMS

Bring a Snickers. It's gonna be a while.

[theunions]

If you go to the GrandAmerican web site and click on 2006 Test Days at Daytona you will get the 2005 results which makes the #89 hard to find :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's not the easiest site in the world to navigate. Another example: at the end of the day Thursday, if you looked under Schedule, you could pull up results for all four practice sessions. if you looked more logically under Results, you could only see practice #1 and 2.

[cameraman]

I really don’t think that the criticisms are based on “jealousy”; more like disappointment that racing has been taken over by some P. T. Barnum’s”, as in the France’s continually “dumbing down” the product, knowing that there’s more people out there that covet rubbin’ and crashin’ than would ever know, or care, about real racing. That does not exactly imply nice things about anyone attending a GA race.

Though I have to agree with the France = PT Barnum line.

[tantra]

On Saturday, Chad McQueen was injured in a collision with the barrier exiting the chicane at the end of the Daytona Superstretch.
McQueen was awake following the incident, and was transported to Halifax Medical Center where he is currently in intensive care in serious condition.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Though I have to agree with the France = PT Barnum line.

How, because they turned the race cars into something that millionaires (yeah, what a dumb demographic of people :rolleyes: ) actually want to spend their money on? That isn't dumbing-down, that is just good business sense.

How drivers having more competition and having to work harder to win races is considered "dumbing down,"I will never figure out. :confused:

[cameraman]

You should learn about PT Barnum. The man practically invented marketing. And if you don't think that the France's are master marketers....


One day a plump beggar came by for a handout. Instead, Barnum offered him a job at a dollar and a half a day. He handed the puzzled beggar five ordinary bricks. “Now,” said Barnum, “go and lay a brick on the sidewalk at the corner of Broadway and Ann Street; another close by the Museum; a third diagonally across the way… put down the fourth on the sidewalk in front of St. Paul’s Church, opposite; then, with the fifth brick in hand, take up a rapid march from one point to the other, making the circuit, exchanging your brick at every point, and say nothing to anyone.… [A]t the end of every hour by St. Paul’s clock show this ticket at the Museum door; enter, walking solemnly through every hall in the building; pass out, and resume your work.”

The beggar moved off with his five bricks, and began his idiot’s play. Within half an hour, more than five hundred curious people were following him. In an hour, the crowd had doubled. When the brick-toting pied piper entered the Museum, dozens bought tickets to follow him. This continued throughout the day for several days, and Barnum’s business showed a satisfying increase.

And he never said “There’s a sucker born every minute.”

[nrc]

On Saturday, Chad McQueen was injured in a collision with the barrier exiting the chicane at the end of the Daytona Superstretch.
McQueen was awake following the incident, and was transported to Halifax Medical Center where he is currently in intensive care in serious condition.

Sorry to hear that. Best wishes for a full, speedy recovery.

[KLang]

I normally stay out of these threads but Man that is an Ugly Car. :eek:

Thank goodness it is the ALMS coming to Houston. :cool:

[FCYTravis]

It doesn't help that they left it in bare clear-coated carbon fiber instead of painting it. CF en masse looks... kinda fugly.

And Nismo, Grand-Am is the second-most-watched road racing series on SPEED Channel, trailing only Formula 1. The numbers aren't spectacular, but for road racing they're about what anyone can expect.

[extramundane]

And Nismo, Grand-Am is the second-most-watched road racing series on SPEED Channel, trailing only Formula 1.

"on SPEED Channel" being the key phrase.

[IlliniRacer]

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/grandam/2006/dt/grandam-2006-dt-lr-0139.jpg



Holy poopnuts, is that thing FUGLY or what? :saywhat:

BARF

Why is wing in front of and mirror behind the cockpit? :confused:

oh wait. . . . . . nevermind.

Yep. You're right.

[FCYTravis]

"on SPEED Channel" being the key phrase.
Correct. When Grand-Am and ALMS and CCWS are on SPEED Channel on the same weekend... Grand-Am gets better ratings.

Of course, unlike the other two series there's no network time-buys, so overall the "add them all up" ratings are lower. But when they go head-to-head on the same channel... for some odd reason, people like watching these races. Maybe because they're interesting, unpredictable, exciting and action-packed.

Either that, or there's some massive NASCAR conspiracy to boost the ratings :gomer:

[Accipiter]

Either that, or there's some massive NASCAR conspiracy to boost the ratings :gomer:

Actually, I think it's because Grand Am snobs refuse to watch the ALMS, while ALMS snobs watch Grand Am to ridicule it, while trying not to admit to themselves they are actully being entertained. ;)

[extramundane]

Correct. When Grand-Am and ALMS and CCWS are on SPEED Channel on the same weekend... Grand-Am gets better ratings.

Of course, unlike the other two series there's no network time-buys, so overall the "add them all up" ratings are lower. But when they go head-to-head on the same channel... for some odd reason, people like watching these races. Maybe because they're interesting, unpredictable, exciting and action-packed.

It's the "add them all up" ratings that count, though. And let's be honest: the ratings on Speed for any series that doesn't have NASCAR in the title are effectively nil. The CCWS & ALMS network time buys are what (potentially) builds these series and (potentially) exposes them to new viewers. The people who watch any of these 3 on Speed are already going to watch them. Nobody's gaining any new viewers through those broadcasts.

Besides, most of the audience watching GA races are ALMS diehards looking for something to bitch about ;)

[extramundane]

Actually, I think it's because Grand Am snobs refuse to watch the ALMS, while ALMS snobs watch Grand Am to ridicule it, while trying not to admit to themselves they are actully being entertained. ;)

Or there's people like me who worked so bloody much last year that they didn't get to see anything unless they remembered to tape it. :(

[FCYTravis]

"Grand-Am snobs"? Wow, do you have that upside-down-and-backwards or what. :shakehead

[FCYTravis]

And let's be honest: the ratings on Speed for any series that doesn't have NASCAR in the title are effectively nil.
True. It's also true for network shows. Anything not NASCAR on a network struggles to get out of the fractions on the Nielsens.

[Accipiter]

"Grand-Am snobs"? Wow, do you have that upside-down-and-backwards or what. :shakehead


Snobism is a subjective thing, which to the unbiased eye, can be found on both sides of this particular argument.

[Rocketdoc]

How, because they turned the race cars into something that millionaires (yeah, what a dumb demographic of people :rolleyes: ) actually want to spend their money on? That isn't dumbing-down, that is just good business sense.

How drivers having more competition and having to work harder to win races is considered "dumbing down,"I will never figure out. :confused:

Before the current DP's designs were dictated by the France organization, there were cars designed and built by regular race car design and fabrication houses, building cars to relatively well understood rules.

The France's wanted to recreate the genre, in their image, and that's what happened.

There was no "sea change" in safety, cost, or anything else that accompanied changing the cars to look like something shrink-wrapped on a NASCAR chassis.

I object to what the France’s did to what in my opinion, wasn’t “broke”.

[Rocketdoc]

It's the "add them all up" ratings that count, though. And let's be honest: the ratings on Speed for any series that doesn't have NASCAR in the title are effectively nil. The CCWS & ALMS network time buys are what (potentially) builds these series and (potentially) exposes them to new viewers. The people who watch any of these 3 on Speed are already going to watch them. Nobody's gaining any new viewers through those broadcasts.

Besides, most of the audience watching GA races are ALMS diehards looking for something to bitch about ;)

No, I don't believe that to be true; at least in my case.

My son is friends with quite a few of the DP drivers, and I watch them when I can.

It's usually great racing, but I just can't stand the way the cars look and the way their aesthetics are controlled, without a functional rationale, by the France family. The same thing goes with the "silhouette" NASCAR NEXTEL CUP (probably to be Sprint Cup) stock cars and the IRL, for many other reasons; some that are similar in some ways.

Nothing more.

[Accipiter]

SPEED’s live broadcast schedule (all times Eastern):
• Jan. 28 – noon to 6 p.m.
• Jan. 28 – 8 p.m. to 11 p.m.
• Jan. 29 – 8 a.m. to noon (with extended post-race coverage)

No overnight coverage. But hey, at least the article in which they announced this had a picture of Danica Patrick. :shakehead

[Steve99]

No overnight coverage. But hey, at least the article in which they announced this had a picture of Danica Patrick. :shakehead
They also changed the name of the top class of cars. DP now stands for "Danica Patrick's car."

:laugh: