View Full Version : Cotman to be fired?
http://speedtv.com/commentary/21871/
nissan gtp
02-02-06, 09:34 PM
gettting rid of Cotman would be a very, very dumb move. He did a great job.
The thread title is a little misleading. CCWS is looking to augment race control by finding a suitable replacement for Cotman as Race Director. Unfortunately cloning isn't an option. I agree w/RM's parting comment...I doubt they will find a suitable replacement.
-Kevin
Stupid, stupid idea. I think nothing was done to Bordais in Monterrey because at the time the consequences of the incident seemed sufficient for the level of fault. Didn't Tracy get a bigger penalty at Mexico City because he refused to yield the position when told?
I think one mistake that past officials have made starting out was being too quick to penalize in an effort to establish respect. Cottman was more apt to let to let the racers race and only get involved when it was necessary.
In addition to Cotman, I wonder if RM finally chewed off his Champ Car teat with this one. What I need to hear now is that Forsythe doesn't believe this is about the calls that went against him. I thought about that as he "guaranteed" to Haas during a confrontation that there would be action taken.
With this out, how are they going to find a suitable replacement if this is not cleared up? Who's going to want the job?
cameraman
02-02-06, 10:32 PM
"In the 40 years I've been in this business I can count on one hand the guys who could do that job (race director) correctly," said Derrick Walker, who intends to make Cotman an agenda in the upcoming owner's meeting Feb. 15-16. "Champ Car has a gem in that guy and we should hang onto him.
"It's sheer madness to take him out of that position."
Damn straight :flame:
Wow, didn't see this one coming. Very political from the outside looking in. :shakehead
I have to reply. I can't add much, but I have to reply.
I've met him, I've worked with him, I've had beers with him.
No. Keep him. The best damn race control official they've ever had.
The title is misleading, as there is no hint of "firing" that I saw (but I read it quick). It appears that he would stay on in a VP position, but damn. He IS race director.
He is race director. <<<<---period.
Amen.
Now, let's add a few more hundred comments and perhaps poll results (for those here who know how to do all that high-tech stuff), and forward it all to KK and GF.
Wally, please talk to Gerald and straighten him out.
Opposite Lock
02-03-06, 12:14 AM
Maybe this is just a little PR stunt. Should turn heads in the small world of AOW racing.
At least it doesn’t involve a 70s rock star.
Tony Cotman is a known asset to our series, based on his race direction in 2005.
IMHO, it would not make sense to lose him now. Somehow I think the Owners probably realize this too.
fourrunner
02-03-06, 12:16 AM
Yes ... I read nothing about his being fired ... just continuing with One less responsibility !
Guess it will only be a mistake, if the guy that replaces him stinks up the place !
Ok, maybe I should have phrased it, Cotman to be condensed?
Cotman is the best Race Director Open Wheel Racing has had since Wally Dallenbach was in his prime.
What really surprises me is that an internal issue is being handled via Robin Miller. That either side would talk to him and/or allow him to write a story on it is bizarre.
grungex
02-03-06, 11:15 AM
Didn't Tracy get a bigger penalty at Mexico City because he refused to yield the position when told?
No. He did initially refuse to do the drive-through, but Neil kindly pointed out to him that they would stop scoring him if he didn't.
What really surprises me is that an internal issue is being handled via Robin Miller. That either side would talk to him and/or allow him to write a story on it is bizarre.
I agree with this. I don't see why as a private company they are allowing this to play out this way.
I suspect there is more going on here. I see he is listed as the VP of Operations. I wonder what all duties that entails? Was he partially responsible for some of the problems in San Jose? Ansan?
Insomniac
02-03-06, 11:25 AM
I hope this doesn't happen. He did a far better job than the last couplke guys over the last few years. I didn't agree with some non-decisions, but he can only learn and get better at this point.
Spicoli
02-03-06, 11:25 AM
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. It has to do with GF never liking him, and some "call" he made against PT sometime last year.
He'll end up at a team somewhere I suppose, but he's gone from CCWS.
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. It has to do with GF never liking him, and some "call" he made against PT sometime last year.
:thumdown:
I know it's Jerry's company, but that was probably the best officiating in years. Bummer that they are willing to take a chance and start over again.
That's a BITE! (Anyone think RM needs permission to write about this now?...or ever?) IF GF is directly involved in making this a personal/team decision that many will view as harmful to the entire series...well, it's a mistake, that's all. A big one. Could someone articulate exactly why GF might be exacting this kind of revenge? That's what it looks like. If it is just because he disagreed with some decisions, that is just infantile.
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. It has to do with GF never liking him, and some "call" he made against PT sometime last year.
He'll end up at a team somewhere I suppose, but he's gone from CCWS.Are you serious? This isn't just some marksie bait, is it??
:shakehead
trauma1
02-03-06, 12:10 PM
no spicoli is usually right on the mark with his sources
racer2c
02-03-06, 12:17 PM
I'm going to wait until I hear the whole story before I start jumping to conclusions.
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. It has to do with GF never liking him, and some "call" he made against PT sometime last year.
He'll end up at a team somewhere I suppose, but he's gone from CCWS.
****! Moves like this mean one less fan. :shakehead
-Kevin
****! Moves like this mean one less fan. :shakehead
-Kevin
SO FAR he is still listed on the website as VP of operations. And they did update the site today to remove the link to the forum.
Andrew Longman
02-03-06, 02:09 PM
Mr. Forsythe,
Thank you very much for your passion for the series and especially your willingness to spend money to preserve it. That's great.
It's your company and you can do as you like but messing around with the race director is a huge mistake. Let others make those calls no matter how much you dislike him. That's just the way it has to be done.
A Fan
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. It has to do with GF never liking him, and some "call" he made against PT sometime last year.
C'mon GF... we need better leadership. Holding grudges is something you expect of tantrum-boy, not CCWS.
Without business ethics, this whole endeavor is a waste of time. Your partners, employees and fans need to be able to trust you. :mad:
oddlycalm
02-03-06, 04:32 PM
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. From race director, VP of Operations or both?
I have to agree with what has been said by others already. Cotman was one of the strongest assets CCWS had going forward. An arbitrary move based on internal politics would send the wrong message to serious fans at a critical moment for CCWS. This is the kind of decision that people look back on 5yrs down the road and realize was the beginning of much bigger problems... :shakehead
oc
Didn't RM or John O do a puff piece on him at the champcar website?
Wonder if it gets pulled...
Tony George
02-03-06, 06:52 PM
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. It has to do with GF never liking him, and some "call" he made against PT sometime last year.
He'll end up at a team somewhere I suppose, but he's gone from CCWS.
Maybe he can run that Cheever RedBull Champcar team! :gomer:
Maybe he can run that Cheever RedBull Champcar team! :gomer:
Or maybe Bernie will rehire Cottman when Bernie buys the series.
grungex
02-03-06, 11:53 PM
I just heard that Cotman is in fact fired. ...
He'll end up at a team somewhere I suppose, but he's gone from CCWS.
I'm going to go out on a limb just a bit here and say that you are probably wrong.
Spicoli
02-03-06, 11:56 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb just a bit here and say that you are probably wrong.
I am not 100% sure, but I KNOW he is gone from being Race Director, and that was at GF's insistance. Hey *may* land at another spot w/in Champ i heard later on. Hell circus Clown was fired and he never left. :rofl: Not sure if the paychex kept a rollin in....
I only asked if he was gone from being RD, and was told yes.
No biggie - we shall see.
Steve99
02-04-06, 01:20 AM
He already had another job at Champ Car. Race Director was just an extra duty.
Insomniac
02-04-06, 09:41 AM
Funny how if the calls are against PT, bad calls are okay. And since practically all of his mistakes went against PT you expect GF not to be the slightest bit mad?
I don't know about the structure of the comapny now, but when they bought it, I believe it was 45% GF, 45% KK and 10% PG. Maybe KK and PG could stop what happened and chose not to. Maybe they want Cottman to focus on more important parts of the company. Maybe they can really find someone better, for most of us recliner officials, the calls just seem like using common sense...
"...all of his mistakes went against PT." Interesting viewpoint. :cry:
Funny how if the calls are against PT, bad calls are okay. And since practically all of his mistakes went against PT you expect GF not to be the slightest bit mad?
Forsythe can be mad if he likes, but by canning an official that made calls that most people agree were usually fair and reasonable, he's helping make the case that team owners should be running the series.
Cottman didn't make that many mistakes. I recall just one call that went against Tracy that really wasn't fair (Monterrey). The bottom line is that Tracy gets into more than his share of trouble and the natural result of that is that things often don't go his way.
oddlycalm
02-04-06, 05:29 PM
The message being sent here is that Forsythe is willing to sack a straight shooter if the calls go against his driver. Considering PT's driving, JF's position has no merit on the face of it, so it's a blatantly capricious action in everyone else's eyes.
This is a major red flag to me if I'm a team owner looking at entering Atlantics or Champ Car or one that's already involved and pondering the future. :thumdown:
oc
grungex
02-05-06, 12:03 AM
He already had another job at Champ Car. Race Director was just an extra duty.
Ding ding ding! Of course, nobody is going to remember this, because it's easier to look at the obvious -- Gerry didn't like the way PT was treated vs. Bourdais. OTOH, Cotman is the best RD Champ Car has had in years. I still believe there's hope that this will blow over, we'll see.
Insomniac
02-06-06, 08:44 AM
"...all of his mistakes went against PT." Interesting viewpoint. :cry:
Well, name some other costly mistakes? I can think of maybe the Glock/Wilson incident at Edmonton that was a non-call.
Insomniac
02-06-06, 08:47 AM
Forsythe can be mad if he likes, but by canning an official that made calls that most people agree were usually fair and reasonable, he's helping make the case that team owners should be running the series.
Cottman didn't make that many mistakes. I recall just one call that went against Tracy that really wasn't fair (Monterrey). The bottom line is that Tracy gets into more than his share of trouble and the natural result of that is that things often don't go his way.
So the officiating could be better. ;)
Glock blocks Servia and is told to give Servia the position. PT blocks A.J. and is sent to the back oif the pack. PT surely makes a lot of problems, but those penalties aren't even close to the same for the same thing.
Insomniac
02-06-06, 08:49 AM
The message being sent here is that Forsythe is willing to sack a straight shooter if the calls go against his driver. Considering PT's driving, JF's position has no merit on the face of it, so it's a blatantly capricious action in everyone else's eyes.
This is a major red flag to me if I'm a team owner looking at entering Atlantics or Champ Car or one that's already involved and pondering the future. :thumdown:
oc
Again, where is KK and PG in this? GF gets to change people's reponsibilities unilaterally? They don't want what's best for the series? Keep building it back up?
grungex
02-06-06, 12:14 PM
Glock blocks Servia and is told to give Servia the position. PT blocks A.J. and is sent to the back oif the pack. PT surely makes a lot of problems, but those penalties aren't even close to the same for the same thing.
Ding ding ding!
So the officiating could be better. ;)
Glock blocks Servia and is told to give Servia the position. PT blocks A.J. and is sent to the back oif the pack. PT surely makes a lot of problems, but those penalties aren't even close to the same for the same thing.
Glock wasn't put behind Servia for blocking. He was put behind Servia for shortcutting the chicane while trying to keep Servia behind him. Tracy got a drive-through penalty for one of the most blatant blocks I've seen in the a while.
http://www.forsythe-racing.com/Archive/20051106MexicoSundayRecap.htm
Race Control determined that the move was outside the rules and called Tracy in for a drive-through penalty, relegating the fiery veteran to the very back of the field once again (Tracy agreed the blocking move was inappropriate and the penalty justified after the race).
Ding ding ding!
That must be the factual error alarm.
Amen. I was going to remain out of the minutia and couldn't even imagine someone might think "It was the same thing!" Point: Running someone off the road at high speed, intentionally, is probably the greatest sin a race driver can commit. I was actually surprised AJ was as composed and restrained as he was in his post race assessment of the "idiot's" move. Even PT acknowledged he got what he deserved. (and that grin as he said it smacked more of mischief than of guilt or appology!) For a guy like Forsythe to suggest the penalty should only have been to return the position was a very unrealistic plea. I'm pleased Cotman saw it that way as well. What has surprised me is that a series owner is exercizing his right to make a business decision that may be a detriment to that very business! I share in the hope Cotman remains with ChampCar and if he is replaced as race director the new hire is as capable. Good luck.
TKGAngel
02-06-06, 01:19 PM
Again, where is KK and PG in this? GF gets to change people's reponsibilities unilaterally? They don't want what's best for the series? Keep building it back up?
For all we know, KK and PG could have agreed with GF's decision, but are allowing GF to be the sacrificial lamb in the media and with the fans, so to speak.
Dr. Corkski
02-06-06, 01:28 PM
Funny how all the PT fanboys bashing Cotman and defending Forsythe's bully and intimidation tactics forgot that PT had gotten away with a blatant block in Montreal.
What has surprised me is that a series owner is exercizing his right to make a business decision that may be a detriment to that very business!
An example of precisely of what was wrong with the former C^RT. :( The inmates should not be running the asylum, even if they are writing the checks to fund the series. Wishful thinking, I know.
-Kevin
cameraman
02-06-06, 01:51 PM
Funny how all the PT fanboys bashing Cotman and defending Forsythe's bully and intimidation tactics forgot that PT had gotten away with a blatant block in Montreal.
That's why they are called fanboys :rolleyes:
grungex
02-06-06, 05:54 PM
Funny how all the PT fanboys bashing Cotman and defending Forsythe's bully and intimidation tactics forgot that PT had gotten away with a blatant block in Montreal.
And I suppose Bourdais didn't get away with anything all season. GMAFB.
BTW, I am not supportive of any attempt by anyone to remove Cotman from the RD position.
Joelski
02-06-06, 06:10 PM
Read and comprehend:
RD is NOT, repeat NOT Cotman's primary position within the ChampCar organizational structure! He's a fill-in that was supposed to be replaced by now. Stop arguing about how crappy it is to fire him, 'cause he ain't.
The man is VP of Race Ops for crissakes. Who would want to sit in a sweaty race control booth when they can be out doing whatever in the paddock/pits?
Ditto. We KNOW that and that isn't even the issue we are debating. Is he being removed from the position because of perceived "errors of judgement" by an injured team owner who just happens to be a race series owner also? If not, it sure looks and sounds like it. Cotman has said he would like to keep that position so I guess the sweaty control booth isn't that unpleasant for him. On the other hand he seems to be OK with the decision and is ready to move on while some of us with no real vested interest think something stinks here. If Mr. Cotman cares to investigate he'll find he has a lot more support in all this than Gerry Forsythe does, for whatever that is worth, and I for one would like him to know that.
For a guy like Forsythe to suggest the penalty should only have been to return the position was a very unrealistic plea.
Darn, I thought you were Forsythe... :confused:
unless you are talking about yourself in the third person. :D
Read and comprehend:
RD is NOT, repeat NOT Cotman's primary position within the ChampCar organizational structure! He's a fill-in that was supposed to be replaced by now. Stop arguing about how crappy it is to fire him, 'cause he ain't.
The man is VP of Race Ops for crissakes. Who would want to sit in a sweaty race control booth when they can be out doing whatever in the paddock/pits?
Gee, I only mentioned this tidbit in about the second post of this thread. :gomer:
-Kevin
CART T. Katz
02-06-06, 10:36 PM
Funny how all the PT fanboys bashing Cotman and defending Forsythe's bully and intimidation tactics forgot that PT had gotten away with a blatant block in Montreal.
that would be one of the bordais fanboys talking. it cuts both ways. if pt got a drive through for mexico city, bordais should have been parked for monterrey, and vegas is argueable either way.
i am an unabashed pt fan and an unabashed bordais hater, but if tony being removed is all about owner revenge, then that just ain't right. but as others have pointed out (twice in some cases ;)) if this is a situation where the position was going to be refilled anyway, then this is just a very bad case of timing. kalkhoven should have been the one to announce the change, or even steve johnson for that matter. then it wouldn't appear to be so reactionary.
Joelski
02-06-06, 11:23 PM
Gee, I only mentioned this tidbit in about the second post of this thread. :gomer:
-Kevin
Okay then, WELCOME TO 2005! :gomer:
It was published before last season in various articles, yet people still think there's a conspiracy. Sure, there's hard feelings and Forsythe was a little heavy handed in his criticism, but he has a right to be pissed. Would anybody honestly say they'd take that job over a VP spot? You'd have to be sporting a headwound!
Insomniac
02-07-06, 08:42 AM
Glock wasn't put behind Servia for blocking. He was put behind Servia for shortcutting the chicane while trying to keep Servia behind him. Tracy got a drive-through penalty for one of the most blatant blocks I've seen in the a while.
http://www.forsythe-racing.com/Archive/20051106MexicoSundayRecap.htm
I see. Shortcutting a chicane to keep someone behind you is not the same as swerving to stop the car behind you from passing you. Thank you for the clarification. Cottman did the Best. Job. Ever. No one can even hope to approach the level he set.
Insomniac
02-07-06, 08:44 AM
For all we know, KK and PG could have agreed with GF's decision, but are allowing GF to be the sacrificial lamb in the media and with the fans, so to speak.
We don't know, and probably never will.
Insomniac
02-07-06, 08:46 AM
Funny how all the PT fanboys bashing Cotman and defending Forsythe's bully and intimidation tactics forgot that PT had gotten away with a blatant block in Montreal.
Yes and all the PT haters believe GF is being a big baby and unilaterally decided to replace Cotman. Obviously nothing GF says can be taken at face value.
Dirty Sanchez
02-07-06, 10:25 AM
the funniest thing is that even if PT would've had every call go his way, he still would've had his ass handed to him in the championship :laugh:
GF should fire that wall in Denver while he's at it :rofl:
GF should fire that wall in Denver while he's at it :rofl:
The one he clipped at the apex or the outside one he smashed into? :D
Dr. Corkski
02-07-06, 10:48 AM
the funniest thing is that even if PT would've had every call go his way, he still would've had his ass handed to him in the championship :laugh:
GF should fire that wall in Denver while he's at it :rofl: :rofl:
NOW we're getting somewhere!! :thumbup:
Fortunately the wall already has another position with the Denver Grand Prix. It normally works in the paddock blocking off the VIP parking. It was only filling that position along the course until a suitable replacement wall could be found.
oddlycalm
02-07-06, 11:49 PM
Fortunately the wall already has another position with the Denver Grand Prix. It normally works in the paddock blocking off the VIP parking. It was only filling that position along the course until a suitable replacement wall could be found. :D Very good.
BTW, I hope this isn't the same concrete barrier that was caught with a couple cones late the night before the race...
oc
pferrf1
02-08-06, 12:01 PM
Read and comprehend:
RD is NOT, repeat NOT Cotman's primary position within the ChampCar organizational structure! He's a fill-in that was supposed to be replaced by now. Stop arguing about how crappy it is to fire him, 'cause he ain't.
The man is VP of Race Ops for crissakes. Who would want to sit in a sweaty race control booth when they can be out doing whatever in the paddock/pits?
This organization has not been known for being free with a buck for head office salaries. If they could have gone without hiring a new Chief Steward, they would. Since he had rave reviews from pretty much everyone inside and outside the series, that would have given them the opportunity to keep Cotman in a dual role and save a salary plus expenses. The CS element of his job last year was mostly a race weekend responsibility.
A very likely scenario is that Cotman would have remained in race control indefinitely, if he had not gotten himself on GF's bad side. That having happened, the fact he has other responsibilities allows CCWS to move him out while somewhat allowing him and the series to save face and giving a rationale for the move.
Insomniac
02-08-06, 03:03 PM
the funniest thing is that even if PT would've had every call go his way, he still would've had his ass handed to him in the championship :laugh:
GF should fire that wall in Denver while he's at it :rofl:
There is no way of knowing what would happen. I'm not saying he would've done better or worse. Just that in my opinion, the calls were wrong.
Dr. Corkski
02-09-06, 04:33 PM
that would be one of the bordais fanboys talking.Actually I am probably the biggest PT fan in this forum, given that I am a fan of whoever screws PT over. :gomer:
Dr. Corkski
02-09-06, 04:37 PM
There is no way of knowing what would happen. I'm not saying he would've done better or worse. Just that in my opinion, the calls were wrong.http://www.terribletwins.org/wambulance.gif
Read and comprehend:
RD is NOT, repeat NOT Cotman's primary position within the ChampCar organizational structure! He's a fill-in that was supposed to be replaced by now. Stop arguing about how crappy it is to fire him, 'cause he ain't.
The man is VP of Race Ops for crissakes. Who would want to sit in a sweaty race control booth when they can be out doing whatever in the paddock/pits?
Robin Miller said on WindTunnel last night that Cotman was replaced because some of his calls went against Forsythe, so Forsythe wants him gone, and Forsythe pays the bills. IF that's true, it proves that Forsythe has learned NOTHING over the last 25 years about the conflict of interest that team owners running the series represents. Talk about short-sighted and self-serving.
FWIW Paul Gentilozzi posted at crapwagon:
On the Cottman story, it is a manufactured controversy based on someones desire to descredit our efforts. When we hired Tony he was not going to be the Steward, when we couldn't find the right one he stepped up to do a great job. We undertook that same task this year and have not come to a conclusion. He is a vital member of the staff and is not going anywhere.
Just to keep the record straight, the quotes from my partners were taken out of context and not given coincidental to the story published. Poor Derrick Walker got trapped into a quote without understanding the context.
link (http://www.champcarfanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=588748#post588748)
Dr. Corkski
02-21-06, 04:18 PM
:rofl:
Opposite Lock
02-21-06, 05:06 PM
Wow - hadn't been back there in a while. And now I've been refreshed as to why.
btw - nice posts, Rocket! :thumbup: :rofl:
btw - nice posts, Rocket! :thumbup: :rofl:
:)
Oh be still my heart, I've already been warned, and I'm not going to comment any further on this subject....look me up at the track if you wish to talk. :D
Insomniac
02-21-06, 07:07 PM
http://www.terribletwins.org/wambulance.gif
:confused:
cameraman
03-02-06, 02:58 AM
According to Jim Swintal's blog Tony Cotman will be RD for 2006.
:thumbup:
TKGAngel
03-02-06, 09:33 AM
Wow - hadn't been back there in a while. And now I've been refreshed as to why.
btw - nice posts, Rocket! :thumbup: :rofl:
I feel like I need a shower after reading that thread.
Kind of suprising that Gentilozzi is posting on message boards. I thought Gentilozzi was kind of backburned because of him shooting off his mouth. Is he only trotted out to give the fans what they want to hear?
Kind of suprising that Gentilozzi is posting on message boards. I thought Gentilozzi was kind of backburned because of him shooting off his mouth. Is he only trotted out to give the fans what they want to hear?
He first popped up to squelch the incorrect conclusion AR1 drew about the story of Rocketsports selling some transporters.
If I was involved in the series I don't think I could bring myself to read the various forums. Not good for the blood pressure.
spinner26
03-02-06, 11:12 AM
Not good for the blood pressure.
Sure it is, good comic relief.
According to Jim Swintal's blog Tony Cotman will be RD for 2006.
:thumbup:Hope you're (Jim's) correct!
TKGAngel
03-02-06, 01:16 PM
If I was involved in the series I don't think I could bring myself to read the various forums. Not good for the blood pressure.
True. And reading the forums could blow up in your face. A TV-related forum I visit once had former West Wing writer Aaron Sorkin posting, until he got banned for violating the rules of said forum. He then turned around and wrote an episode where he indicated that internet forum people are crazy whackjobs with no lives (paraphrasing).
Topic...if Cotman is indeed RD for 2006, is it because of a lack of qualified replacement candidates or the backlash from the fans?
is it because of a lack of qualified replacement candidates
My $ is on that reason. RM said so in the piece he wrote about this change from the start.
"It's not a done deal at this point," said Forsythe. "If we don't find somebody better..."
Here's a prediction. They won't.
-Kevin
Jervis Tetch 1
03-03-06, 03:31 PM
Hope you're (Jim's) correct!
:thumbup:
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