View Full Version : Superbowl - Referees
Glad to see they are getting the national media attention they deserve.
Throw a Flag on These Superbowl Referees (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/13801313.htm)
Refs Were Far from Super in this One (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5310192)
Pittsburgh's one-for-the-thumb Super Bowl will be remembered as the game when physically overmatched referees and heads-buried NFL executives flipped non-Steelers fans an XL middle finger.
And NFL fans need to acknowledge that there's something terribly wrong with professional football. This year's playoffs were horrible. Sunday's Super Bowl stands as an appropriate symbol of the 2006 playoffs_boring and poorly officiated.
Also, the officiating crew should be forced to address the media and defend their decisions. It's ridiculous that the media are allowed to confront players, coaches, executives and owners, but the guys who can easily change the course of a game with one questionable decision are pretty much off limits.
Bill Leavy and his crew ruined Super Bowl XL. Am I the only one who would like to hear them defend their incompetence?
Like a crazed CIA analyst running through the halls of Langley screaming into open offices about some impending calamity, I've been shrieking hysterically about the terrible officiating in the NFL and warning that some day the brutal calls were going to affect the outcome of the Super Bowl.
That some day was Sunday.
Every single questionable, marginal or outright bad call went against the Seahawks.
Insomniac
02-06-06, 08:50 AM
They've been terrible all post season. Not surprised they did just as bad in front of the world. At least they were consistent in sucking.
Kinda hard to take pro football seriously anymore with officiating like that in it's biggest game. The Seahawks were screwed. They had to beat both the Steelers AND the officials.
:thumdown: Now I know why a barely watch the sport anymore.
chop456
02-06-06, 09:39 AM
Still the best referees in professional sports by a long shot. :thumbup:
racermike
02-06-06, 10:12 AM
I am still in shock from what I witnessed yesterday.
Even in Portland, watching at sports bar on big tv, fans were ready to riot, knowing that the referees took over this game, and seemed hell-bent on taking this game away from Seattle.
Complete and utter travesty, and the NFL is going to have a huge PR problem stemming from this.
How can you manage to F up a game so badly, for such a large audience.
And here I have season tix on hold for next year, and this game left such a sour taste, that I am debating ever seeing another game again. I dont want the Hawks organization to lose any revenue over this, but the fact is, they will, from disgruntled fans, who feel they were cheated by the NFL "officiating"
Andrew Longman
02-06-06, 10:56 AM
Still the best referees in professional sports by a long shot. :thumbup:
Better than MLB and the NBA. Better than many NCAAF refs (see Sunbelt Conf esp)
But not as good as the NFL refs used to be. Not as good as the NHL in my opinion
chop456
02-06-06, 11:29 AM
Better than MLB and the NBA. Better than many NCAAF refs (see Sunbelt Conf esp)
But not as good as the NFL refs used to be. Not as good as the NHL in my opinion
What's left of the NHL is a joke. Any sport in which the refs "swallow the whistle" or "let them play" is a joke, as much as any sport with judges. I won't even get into fighting because that's an issue with the league, not the refs. Koharsky still sucks and Fraser still has a toolin' haircut. :gomer:
Most of the whining going on is from people with an axe to grind. I'm sure the league will stand up and take notice right away.
I wish there was a way that both teams could have lost.
Hard Driver
02-06-06, 01:03 PM
:cry: Wah
I personally think the "let them play" arguement is dumb. The superbowl should be called like every other game, a penalty is a penalty.
Now that "push off" in the end zone was exactly that, a penalty. I just think that one or two more of these push off could have been called. There was one highlighted on a long steeler catch that should have been called. Regarding the Steeler TD was called, I don't think there is "conclusive" evidence to overturn that.
The gist of it is that if you are playing such that a couple of "calls" is your excuse for losing, you were not playing well enough to win. If the Seahawks were the better team to the extent that they were racking up TD's, then they would have won. They didn't. They missed field goals. That one TD did not cost them the game. It cost them 4 points. They lost by more than that.
Yea, in the first quater, the seahawks looked the better team, they just did not capitalize in points. In the 2nd qtr, the steelers started to come alive, but again the sehawks had the edge, but not in the catagory that counts, points. Then in the 2nd half the steelers looked better. I think that the better team won. And I am pretty neutral, as far as I could care less who won the game.
Dirty Sanchez
02-06-06, 01:09 PM
ding^
the best team won...
again :laugh:
and so did I... steelers -4 and under 46.5 :thumbup:
Cowherd took the refs to task this AM. He called them out on several 'calls'. It will be interesting if this gains any traction with the national media. My point in complaining about this is that we should expect better officiating @ this level. Frankly, professional and college officiating had been going steadily downhill in a number of sports the past several years. :thumdown:
Again, I still assert that the 'hags can only blame themselves for not taking advantage of their chances in the first half. They clearly could have forced the Steelers to change their O gameplan, which is what happened in losses to Cincy and Indy during the season.
-Kevin
why should i be a fan of a football team if there is the strong possibility that my team could lose a game because a bunch of refs make bad decisions throughout the game.
its sloppy, and i expect more from the referees. if i am paying my not so hard earned money to them to watch a game, I dont want to be talking about the referees afterwards, cuz that means they did something stupid.
Dirty Sanchez
02-06-06, 01:50 PM
and what were the bad calls that have you so upset? and do you think they somehow decided the outcome of the game?
Dr. Corkski
02-06-06, 01:50 PM
why should i be a fan of a football team if there is the strong possibility that my team could lose a game because a bunch of refs make bad decisions throughout the game.Well, you are a Browns fan despite the strong possibility that they would lose a game because of their quarterback making bad decisions throughout the game. :laugh:
Tifosi24
02-06-06, 02:07 PM
Why isn't anyone complaining about Holmgren's inept coaching at the end of both halfs, or was I the only person that saw that :confused: ?
And hockey refs aren't better than NFL, that is the only sport where there should be four different rule books, first, second, third, and overtime.
Blaming the refs for Seattle losing would be like blaming the mirror for looking ugly.
Pittsburgh was the better team - by far.
If you want to talk about an embarassment - let's talk about the Rolling Stones.
TravelGal
02-06-06, 02:27 PM
Why isn't anyone complaining about Holmgren's inept coaching at the end of both halfs, or was I the only person that saw that :confused: ?
You are not. One of the many commentators was doing nothing but ragging on the poor time management Holmgren keeps repeating.
That said, after watching the game and looking at two run throughs of key plays, it still looks to me like Seattle got the bad end of the refereeing, and I was rooting for Pittsburgh. BUT (don't you love circular arguments?), the calls that were blown did not blow the game for them. They did that on their own. They were not good enough. The Steelers had some go against them also. They overcame them. They won.
Why isn't anyone complaining about Holmgren's inept coaching at the end of both halfs, or was I the only person that saw that :confused: ?
I brought it up earlier, but Stuey seemed to think that was the refs fault too. :rolleyes:
The gist of it is that if you are playing such that a couple of "calls" is your excuse for losing, you were not playing well enough to win. If the Seahawks were the better team to the extent that they were racking up TD's, then they would have won. They didn't. They missed field goals. That one TD did not cost them the game. It cost them 4 points. They lost by more than that.Ding! Ding! Ding! :thumbup:
racermike
02-06-06, 02:48 PM
It wasnt just the bad calls, it was the horrible NON calls
Pittsburgh was the better team - by far.
Sjow me the by far:
http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=260205023
400 yards vs. 250, +7 minutes time of possession, +1 TOs. The Steelers made the big plays...three of them. Take those away, and they <100 yards of O for the game. Hardly a dominating performance.
They won. True dat. By far the better team? Hardly.
-Kevin
Add "Dropped Passes" and "Time of Possession that was mismanaged" to that, and you'll start to get a more complete picture.
Pittsburgh played like Champions. Seattle did not - nor did they come close.
22.9 QB Rating is that of a champion?
LOL @ the fact that it took me and Dando until after the Superbowl to finally agree on something this NFL season.
Andrew Longman
02-06-06, 04:00 PM
Add "Dropped Passes" and "Time of Possession that was mismanaged" to that, and you'll start to get a more complete picture.
Pittsburgh played like Champions. Seattle did not - nor did they come close.
Big Ben's qb rating was the worst of all time for a winning Super Bowl qb. THIRTY POINTs below the next worst qb.
Add more turnovers, less time of possession, less yardage and its amazing they won let alone won by 11 points.
Give the Steelers great credit for even getting to the Super Bowl. Their run was historic. And they should not apologize for winning or feel they have to give the trophy back. But played like champions? Hardly. Neither team did. Neither team looked even close to being the second best team in the league. Combined with the refs the NFL put out a pretty brutal product yesterday. Not quite as bad as the CART race from Australia a few years back, but close.
spinner26
02-06-06, 04:13 PM
There was a game that needed officials? Who was playing? Who won? :gomer:
I was laying a new kitchen floor and hanging a new back door and utility room door :cry: , all the while listening to 104.7 WTUE streamed out of Dayton, Oh. :thumbup:
22.9 QB Rating is that of a champion?
While Ben's overall numbers were not that great, let me remind you of some key plays he made:
Mid-second quarter, Seattle up 3-0:
-- On a third-and-six from their own 45, Roethlisberger is forced to scramble. He flips a shuffle pass to Ward for a 12-yard pickup and a first down, the first of the game for the Steelers.
-- Five plays later, after a penalty and a sack backed Pittsburgh out of field-goal range and set up a third-and-28, Roethlisberger again has to scramble. He rolls left and runs just behind the line of scrimmage before finding Ward at the three-yard line for a first-and-goal and setting up their first touchdown.
Late second quarter:
-- :02 remaining, Roethlisberger takes a knee to end the half after Seattle p!$$ed away almost two minutes of clock.
Early fourth quarter, Pittsburgh up 14-10:
-- With Pittsburgh well out of field-goal range, Roethlisberger is again forced to scramble, this time on a third-and-two. He picks up five yards and the first down.
-- On the very next play, Roethlisberger throws a key block that buys Antwaan Randle El enough time to throw a strike to Ward for a 43-yard touchdown, putting Pittsburgh up 21-10.
Late fourth quarter:
-- 4:45 to play, Roethlisberger completes a seven-yard pass to Randle El on a third-and-six.
-- 3:51 to play, Roethlisberger runs around left end for a three-yard pickup on a third-and-three.
Late fourth quarter:
-- :03 remaining, Roethlisberger takes a knee to end the game after Seattle p!$$ed away almost two minutes of clock.
Roethlisberger has always showed an incredible amount of composure in difficult situations. He made big plays when the circumstances of the game required them. Hasselbeck, and in particular Jerramy Stevens did not.
The result: Steelers win, Seahawks lose.
While Ben's overall numbers were not that great,
understatement of the decade...
22.9 QB Rating is that of a champion?
LOL @ the fact that it took me and Dando until after the Superbowl to finally agree on something this NFL season.
What we don't agree that the Browns suck?!? :gomer: :p
22.9 are just numbers. They mean nothing. It's like 4th = 1st to the gomerati. :D
-Kevin
Andrew Longman
02-06-06, 06:51 PM
Rabbit
Eight good plays. Eight plays many other qbs wouldn't/couldn't make. Some qbs only need one good play to win a game. Few qbs can win a game all by himself. He had a lot of good plays to even get to the game.
But no one next week, next year or next decade is going to remember that as one of the great super bowl performances. You may tell your grandkids about the pass on 3rd and 23 (which BTW there was a lineman downfield, but not called), but you will not be bragging about his overall game performance.
Congrats to the Steelers. Scoreboard says they won and that's the only stat that matters.
"I knew it would be tough playing against the Steelers, but I didn't know we'd also have to play the guys in stripes too."
The officiating sucked, but the Seahawks blew multiple opportunities to overcome it. Dropped passes, poor play calling and just clock management at the end of the halves could be blamed just as much.
But here's the thing: it shouldn't be an issue. Every team has to live with a botched call here and there, it's part of the gam. But no team should have to overcome biased officiating.
The NFL already grades every officiating crew not just for the calls that they make, but for those that they don't make. But I don't know if there's any effort to downgrade officials or crews who err too often to once side. If you have four bad calls in a game there's a huge difference if they're all against one team compared to two against each.
"I knew it would be tough playing against the Steelers, but I didn't know we'd also have to play the guys in stripes too." :cry: :cry: :cry:
:shakehead
Rabbit
Eight good plays. Eight plays many other qbs wouldn't/couldn't make. Some qbs only need one good play to win a game. Few qbs can win a game all by himself. He had a lot of good plays to even get to the game.
But no one next week, next year or next decade is going to remember that as one of the great super bowl performances. You may tell your grandkids about the pass on 3rd and 23 (which BTW there was a lineman downfield, but not called), but you will not be bragging about his overall game performance.
Congrats to the Steelers. Scoreboard says they won and that's the only stat that matters.
Exactly, but if he doesn't make any one of those eight plays, the entire outcome of the game could have been completely different.
If anyone can show me a single Seahawk who made eight plays just as big as those, then I will take back everything I said about the officials costing them the game.
I'm telling you, it's going to be bigger than the Macarena!
http://www.offcamber.net/images/TheRothlisberger.gif
Tony George
02-07-06, 01:20 AM
That game was as honest as a boxing match. :mad: :flame:
stealers=garbage
Winston Wolfe
02-07-06, 02:25 AM
Is it true that all NFL referee and the crew on the field are "part timers", and not employed by the league on a FULL TIME basis ? They are actually lawyers, doctors, business leaders, etc., and only do this gig for 16-18 weeks out of the year? I heard that today, and if so, this is the reason for them to hire and train a full time staff of younger, faster, smarter, wiser refs that can be relied on to make more "consistent' officiating decisions.
Get with the times, NFL, if in fact they are "part timers".... this is the 40th Super Bowl fer crissakes, and since the league is making BILLIONS, its about time they peeled off a few sheckles and hired a legitimate, full time crew of officials... :thumbup:
Lizzerd
02-07-06, 04:56 AM
NFL refs are not hired off the street. They work their way up the ladder, much like drivers do, to the big time. Starting in High School or less, then to smaller college conferences to the bigger ones, to the NFL.
A Champ Car driver "works" 16 -18 weekends a year, too. Is a driver a part timer? No. Nor are the NFL refs. They train, study, and hone their skills in the off-season.
Has a Champ Car driver ever made a mistake during a race that affects its outcome? Yes.
Has a NFL ref ever made a mistake that affected the outcome of a game? Yes.
Here's to being human... :thumbup:
Poor officiating decided the game......GMAFB
A push off is a push off, there's no degree to that and if you do that in front of an official, chances are you get called. Not every penalty gets a call, holding goes on all the time and is missed.
The TD by Big Ben, well if that wasn't called a TD, it would have been reviewed and that call would have stood too and it would be 4th and goal. No matter what the call was on the field the replay showed noting definitve either way.
How many dropped pases did Stevens have, he looked like the Bears kick returner in the begining of the year, he was acting like the football was herpes....oh oh here it comes....gahhhh I don't want that.
2 Missed field goals, both had the distance but were off, had those been made they could have concentrated on getting only one score at the end of the game instead of two. That might have required some play clock management though, and that was too complicated for Seatle on Sunday.
Seatle could have and pry should have won that game, but the "bad" calls didn't affect them as much as their poor timing of errors.
Waah is right, if you dwell on this to much ...well what can I say, figure it out :p
Insomniac
02-07-06, 08:50 AM
:cry: Wah
I personally think the "let them play" arguement is dumb. The superbowl should be called like every other game, a penalty is a penalty.
Now that "push off" in the end zone was exactly that, a penalty. I just think that one or two more of these push off could have been called. There was one highlighted on a long steeler catch that should have been called. Regarding the Steeler TD was called, I don't think there is "conclusive" evidence to overturn that.
The gist of it is that if you are playing such that a couple of "calls" is your excuse for losing, you were not playing well enough to win. If the Seahawks were the better team to the extent that they were racking up TD's, then they would have won. They didn't. They missed field goals. That one TD did not cost them the game. It cost them 4 points. They lost by more than that.
Yea, in the first quater, the seahawks looked the better team, they just did not capitalize in points. In the 2nd qtr, the steelers started to come alive, but again the sehawks had the edge, but not in the catagory that counts, points. Then in the 2nd half the steelers looked better. I think that the better team won. And I am pretty neutral, as far as I could care less who won the game.
This is a completely uinbiased view of the officiating...
Insomniac
02-07-06, 08:57 AM
Cowherd took the refs to task this AM. He called them out on several 'calls'. It will be interesting if this gains any traction with the national media. My point in complaining about this is that we should expect better officiating @ this level. Frankly, professional and college officiating had been going steadily downhill in a number of sports the past several years. :thumdown:
Again, I still assert that the 'hags can only blame themselves for not taking advantage of their chances in the first half. They clearly could have forced the Steelers to change their O gameplan, which is what happened in losses to Cincy and Indy during the season.
-Kevin
Aside from the Philly-esque chocke job at the end of the half, didn't they? They had a TD called back on a push-off (and if that was one, how was that the only one called all game?) and a 1st and Goal at the 2 or 3 called back on a holding call (and again, if that was holding, you're saying the Steelers never held once?) That is a guaranteed 7 points and a potential 14 points.
Then on the otherside, you have 3rd and Goal, the ref initially has one hand up and then while running closer changes his mind to a TD. There was no conclusive look, so whatever that ref decided, it was staying that way. His insticnt/initial thought was no TD then he changed his mind. That's another potential 7 points.
They could've been up 2 TDs going into half time, and I don't think any sensible fan would think Big Ben would get back in through the air.
Insomniac
02-07-06, 09:01 AM
Blaming the refs for Seattle losing would be like blaming the mirror for looking ugly.
Pittsburgh was the better team - by far.
If you want to talk about an embarassment - let's talk about the Rolling Stones.
They sure were.
Less total yards.
More turnovers.
Lost time of possession.
Their QB had a 22.6 rating.
They even had to just pick someone to be MVP (since the Refs can't be). And it was the guy who did something, comparitively to the others on his team.
They did win in the only stat that matters, the score.
Better team by far, hardly.
Insomniac
02-07-06, 09:02 AM
Why isn't anyone complaining about Holmgren's inept coaching at the end of both halfs, or was I the only person that saw that :confused: ?
This thread is about the refs, but it was bad. You now know where Andy Reid learned it. ;)
Insomniac
02-07-06, 09:11 AM
Exactly, but if he doesn't make any one of those eight plays, the entire outcome of the game could have been completely different.
If anyone can show me a single Seahawk who made eight plays just as big as those, then I will take back everything I said about the officials costing them the game.
And if a ref didn't make some of those calls it would be an entirely different game.
If taking a knee is a big play, Hasselback threw the ball 50 times, I'm sure there are 8 big plays there. And 2 taken away by penalty, one called for an illegal block on a tackle...
Insomniac
02-07-06, 09:16 AM
Poor officiating decided the game......GMAFB
A push off is a push off, there's no degree to that and if you do that in front of an official, chances are you get called. Not every penalty gets a call, holding goes on all the time and is missed.
So there wasn't another "push-off" like that in front of an official the entire game or a hold like that was missed the entire game?
chop456
02-07-06, 09:23 AM
I demand perfection! :gomer:
I demand perfection! :gomer:
I demand something better than the high school games I watch on Fridays... you know, seeing as it is the most holy "league"
And if a ref didn't make some of those calls it would be an entirely different game.
If Seattle would have worried as much about its own ineptitude as it did the officials', the officials wouldn't have been an issue.
If taking a knee is a big play, Hasselback threw the ball 50 times, I'm sure there are 8 big plays there. And 2 taken away by penalty, one called for an illegal block on a tackle...If Seattle knew how to run a two-minute drill, then taking a knee would not have been a big play. But since the 'Hawks appearantly were the only team in the league that didn't practice the two-minute drill all season, it was. That was the worst clock management I have ever seen in a championship game in any sport. Seattle deserved to lose.
Poor officiating decided the game......GMAFB
A push off is a push off, there's no degree to that and if you do that in front of an official, chances are you get called. Not every penalty gets a call, holding goes on all the time and is missed.
The TD by Big Ben, well if that wasn't called a TD, it would have been reviewed and that call would have stood too and it would be 4th and goal. No matter what the call was on the field the replay showed noting definitve either way.
How many dropped pases did Stevens have, he looked like the Bears kick returner in the begining of the year, he was acting like the football was herpes....oh oh here it comes....gahhhh I don't want that.
2 Missed field goals, both had the distance but were off, had those been made they could have concentrated on getting only one score at the end of the game instead of two. That might have required some play clock management though, and that was too complicated for Seatle on Sunday.
Seatle could have and pry should have won that game, but the "bad" calls didn't affect them as much as their poor timing of errors.
Waah is right, if you dwell on this to much ...well what can I say, figure it out :p
Good post. :thumbup:
chop456
02-07-06, 12:27 PM
Anyone that thought the Seahawks were going to win this game was kidding themselves. Now it's excuse-making time.
Hasselbackup and Holmgren can think things over on the golf course.
Homers and haters. :laugh:
"Seahawks Rull?"
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060207/capt.watw10502070035.frustrated_seahawks_watw105.j pg
http://www.cremationofcare.com/images/humour_morans.JPG
:laugh:
So there wasn't another "push-off" like that in front of an official the entire game or a hold like that was missed the entire game?
That's my point, how many guys do the officials have to watch, over an area the size of the field? There will be good calls and bad calls and missed calls. The sad thing is the Seahawk that pushed off and caused that penalty didn't really need to do that to make the catch.
So how much money did you loose? :D
In conclusion:
-Holmgren sucked
-Stevens sucked
-Big Ben and the Steelers O sucked (and no the fact he made a couple of plays does not absolve him from his absolute suckage on Sunday.)
-The refs sucked
-The halftime show sucked
-The commercials, on average, sucked
"Seahawks Rull?"
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20060207/capt.watw10502070035.frustrated_seahawks_watw105.j pg
http://www.cremationofcare.com/images/humour_morans.JPG
:laugh:
I see traces of the "E" there. Not really a good picture of it.
I see traces of the "E" there. Not really a good picture of it.
Yea its clearly an E.
Insomniac
02-08-06, 03:22 PM
If Seattle would have worried as much about its own ineptitude as it did the officials', the officials wouldn't have been an issue.
If Seattle knew how to run a two-minute drill, then taking a knee would not have been a big play. But since the 'Hawks appearantly were the only team in the league that didn't practice the two-minute drill all season, it was. That was the worst clock management I have ever seen in a championship game in any sport. Seattle deserved to lose.
They still would've been an issue. Look, I'm not saying they would've won or the Steelers would've lost, I don't know why all the Pittsburgh fans get all defensive. The Steelers did not cheat. They won the game and championship. Be happy. The officals sucked, it's a fact. And every close call/non-call went against Seattle.
Seattle did screw up the ends of both halves. But the officials still sucked. It's really that simple.
Insomniac
02-08-06, 03:30 PM
That's my point, how many guys do the officials have to watch, over an area the size of the field? There will be good calls and bad calls and missed calls. The sad thing is the Seahawk that pushed off and caused that penalty didn't really need to do that to make the catch.
So how much money did you loose? :D
Ahhh, I don't gamble when it requires other people to do something for me to win. :)
The ref was right there for most of the calls, except for the Hasselback block. It's not a matter of how many guys to watch, I'm just saying there was plenty of hand figting, illegal contact and push-offs on both sides. And it was only called once. I don't think there was some vast conspiracy, just a bad call/influence by the crowd. They're human, but they've certainly officiated much better than that.
Insomniac
02-08-06, 03:32 PM
In conclusion:
-Holmgren sucked
-Stevens sucked
-Big Ben and the Steelers O sucked (and no the fact he made a couple of plays does not absolve him from his absolute suckage on Sunday.)
-The refs sucked
-The halftime show sucked
-The commercials, on average, sucked
And the game sucked!
Ahhh, I don't gamble when it requires other people to do something for me to win. :)
The ref was right there for most of the calls, except for the Hasselback block. It's not a matter of how many guys to watch, I'm just saying there was plenty of hand figting, illegal contact and push-offs on both sides. And it was only called once. I don't think there was some vast conspiracy, just a bad call/influence by the crowd. They're human, but they've certainly officiated much better than that.
Yeah, the officiating across the league this year was incosistent at best.
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