All joking aside............ [Archive]

racer2c

02-18-06, 11:27 PM

NASCAR = the only sport where the modern day RedNeck never admits being a fan at work, they just put decals of numbers in the back of their SUV's.

I tuned into the last five minutes of the Busch race (the last five is all you need in a NASCAR race) and low and behold, Tony and Dale are leadin' the pack! :gomer:

Low and behold a spectacular, made for TV crash-o-rama on the last lap! Every RedNeck went back to their hotel happy. With visions of yellow flags dancing in their heads.

Can someone point out the actual racing that occured today? I guess the "talent" in driving a NASCAR (and I say that with complete GOMERALITY), is driving with one hand while the other hand is giving directions to the guy behind you on how to "hook up". Roller Derby mahem! Why fight it? Embrace it!

extramundane

02-19-06, 12:46 AM

......what is the infatuation with NASCAR? :saywhat:

"Nobody ever went broke understimating the taste of the American public."

Sean O'Gorman

02-19-06, 02:15 AM

My guess is that it is big because the powers that run it actually think about the fan instead of treating their "pro" race series an extremely expensive semi-private club racing circuit.

RacinM3

02-19-06, 02:53 AM

Chocolate - vanilla

Tastes great - less filling

Conservative - liberal

Men - women

Any more pointless questions?

Actually I don't think it's pointless at all. All of your examples above, it could be argued, represent a 50/50 split in terms of those with a preference.

As far as NASCAR goes, the preference is weighted very, very heavily on the side of NASCAR when compared to ANY other form of racing in the US.

Your analogies don't work.

spinner26

02-19-06, 05:04 AM

I must admit, some, I mean a couple responses do not suprise me at all and the majority have it spot on, I suppose.

It's about the meat in the seats, they cater to the fan and expect the rest of the stage performers to do the same so those who support it feel like they are getting a bang for their buck.?

My hang up with it is that it is the ULTIMATE in "formula racing", every "car" fits the same template, all motors are, supposed to be anyway, the same size.

It has now gone from, how was it said, rubin's racin', to touch someone and it's aggressive driving.

The hard ***, drive anything, anywhere at anytime past champion is speaking out against the very same thing that has made him and his predasessor, Dale Sr. successful. WTF!

It was okay to bump and run while you were doing it Tony, but now it is a safety issue? :rolleyes:

Theses cabbers are spokes people for products and steering wheel holders. I do not for one second claim that I can do better or even the same, I merely suggest it is overblown , over hyped, WWF on wheels and sooooooooooo many people have fallen for it.

Ain't mad at no one for being a fan, just curious with the infatuation.

BOOGITY, BOOGITY, BOOGITY, GO GET 'EM BOY'S.

SEE, I HAVE WATCHED BEFORE. :gomer:

rjohnson999

02-19-06, 09:34 AM

My point is that arguing over personal taste is pointless.

Actually I don't think it's pointless at all. All of your examples above, it could be argued, represent a 50/50 split in terms of those with a preference.

As far as NASCAR goes, the preference is weighted very, very heavily on the side of NASCAR when compared to ANY other form of racing in the US.

Your analogies don't work.

racer2c

02-19-06, 09:39 AM

My guess is that it is big because the powers that run it actually think about the fan instead of treating their "pro" race series an extremely expensive semi-private club racing circuit.

CART was guilty of that. Alas they are no more. :)

Joelski

02-19-06, 09:44 AM

Where else can you hurl chicken buckets and beer coolers (with beers in them! :eek: ), and not get arrested?

Andrew Longman

02-19-06, 09:58 AM

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1140329911103900.xml?starledger?s&coll=1

From this morning's paper. Actually some pretty good insights. I didn't realize that for all the talk about marketing the drivers in NASCAR they are actually pretty careful to make the sport star-proof. Ratings were up last year for the chase even without Jeff and Dale in the hunt

"The sport is marketed as close, competitive racing," said Brett Yormark, chief executive of the Nets who used to run NASCAR's New York sales office. "They communicate it through the stars, but at the end of the day it's about the sport and the sport comes first. The fans understand that."

trish

02-19-06, 10:03 AM

Except when Tiger doesn't make the cut, he doesn't show up. If Jeff Gordon doesn't make the cut he can still participate in and possibly win the event.

racer2c

02-19-06, 10:19 AM

I think that's crap. I grew up in NASCAR crazy VA and it's all about the driver. These walking billboards, with their M&M race jackets, and Bud hats and decals all over their SUV's and minivans only care about one thing...their driver. NASCAR has convinced them through decades of manipulating PR that 1. NASCAR foot to the floor draft fest is racing, 2.old tech is new tech. 3. That a 15 place finish is a 'good day' and 4. NASCAR is a unique "sport". Now it's going to convince them it's not about the driver but the racing and they will probably believe them. Rednecks believe any swill you shovel their way.

NASCAR fans understand that if Jeff Gordon isn't winning, just wait...he will, so the marketing machine interprets their patience as a sign of a star-proof sport, or they are clever enough to know they should push that angle to the casual fan. If they can convince the casual fan that it's not about the drivers, they just succeeded in growing ensuring the health of the series when Gordon, JR etc retires.

Andrew Longman

02-19-06, 10:34 AM

Racer I think the article was making your point. They nurture their stars and the stars are a critical, but they are a conduit to getting out the message that NASCAR style racing is "the ultimate". Yes, everyone seems to have a favorite, but they find new favorites when their guy turns over. DE dying didn't do a thing for all those diehard DE fans. They just moved to another driver while holding up three fingers on the third lap of every race.

There are not a lot of recent examples of it so its hard to say, but how interested would NASCAR fans be in another style of racing if their star jumped to another series. DE and Jr running ALMS got some interest, but mostly when Jr got burned. Some of their guys running GA seems to be helping get GA some attention, but most NASCAR fans are sticking to what they like.

It will be interesting how much interest Rusty can generate for the IRL. I doubt it will be much.

ChrisB

02-19-06, 12:39 PM

Stu

02-19-06, 12:47 PM

Here's the real problem for us..... How do you build ANY other kind of American racing series when Nascar, with it's wrestling on wheels attitude is willing to do *ANYTHING* (fix races, etc) to get fans, teams, and sponsors?

Fixed races? This may be http://img199.exs.cx/img199/2918/newbie0tr.gif from me but when have they "fixed" a race? Sounds like a pretty impossible thing to do when you factor everything in that goes to winning a race. The only one recently that I could think of was when Junior won the Pepsi 400 a few years back as he came from 7th to win it in the last lap or so. But thats just plate racing, not a fixed race.

And if they were really doing everything to get fans and sponsors, would there be no bump zones at Daytona? Would they be trying to introduce a new bumper for Talladega to eliminate bump drafting? All that takes away from the big one, which is what a lot of casual fans tune in to see.

NismoZ

02-19-06, 12:54 PM

Ahhh, "The Call"? Wonder who gets it today? Bet it ain't the Knaus car!

pchall

02-19-06, 01:02 PM

Fixed races? This may be http://img199.exs.cx/img199/2918/newbie0tr.gif from me but when have they "fixed" a race?

There's been a lot of discussion about what NASCAR let Petty get away with to win #200 in front of Ronald Reagan.

ChrisB

02-19-06, 01:13 PM

Nascar will "stage" excitement. They'll do anything... it's OK.. it's part of the wrestling mentality. How do you compete for fan/sponsor $$$ against that?

Stu

02-19-06, 01:27 PM

There's been a lot of discussion about what NASCAR let Petty get away with to win #200 in front of Ronald Reagan.

hmm... well i have heard of this, but then again, i was about 13 months old at the time.

so is the only thing about fixing races? a theory about something nearly 22 years ago?

pchall

02-19-06, 01:32 PM

hmm... well i have heard of this, but then again, i was about 13 months old at the time.

so is the only thing about fixing races? a theory about something nearly 22 years ago?

There is also "The Call", where a driver or team with sponsorship woes suddenly improves dramatically after being informed by NASCAR Tech what areas of their car will not be scrutinized closely in the next race.

Sean O'Gorman

02-19-06, 01:37 PM

And then there's firing your race director because you don't like the calls he made as they related to your driver.

trish

02-19-06, 01:55 PM

Fixed races? This may be http://img199.exs.cx/img199/2918/newbie0tr.gif from me but when have they "fixed" a race? Sounds like a pretty impossible thing to do when you factor everything in that goes to winning a race. The only one recently that I could think of was when Junior won the Pepsi 400 a few years back as he came from 7th to win it in the last lap or so. But thats just plate racing, not a fixed race.

And if they were really doing everything to get fans and sponsors, would there be no bump zones at Daytona? Would they be trying to introduce a new bumper for Talladega to eliminate bump drafting? All that takes away from the big one, which is what a lot of casual fans tune in to see.

If you think about it, the easiest way to fix a race is during inspection. Those you don't want to win, you find every little thing wrong with the cars. The car you want to win that has all kinds of infractions, you look the other way.

Stu

02-19-06, 07:43 PM

If neckar were fixed would they really allow Jimmy Johnson to win after all the crap his crew cheif went through this week?

redmist

02-19-06, 08:31 PM

If neckar were fixed would they really allow Jimmy Johnson to win after all the crap his crew cheif went through this week?

absolutly, you can now milk that storyline until the next race. you know, "the man" tries to keep you down but you rise up and overcome against all odds. that's america baby. ;)

DjDrOmusic

02-19-06, 09:04 PM

There was a NASCAR race today??? ;)

Andrew Longman

02-19-06, 09:37 PM

The call? I don't think so. That's too complicated. But preferential treatment sure.

Today for instance, someone, I forget who (and that's kinda the point) scraped the wall with enough harm that it was going to cause him to have to pit to pull the fenders off the wheels. No caution, he pits, he's a lap down, he's done.

20 laps or so later Stewart and Jeff ride the wall in about the same way. Didn't throw a lot of debris on the track, almost caused a big wreck but didn't, but needed to pit to make repairs. Its two of our biggest stars, they get a yellow.

Can't say I know all the facts, but that yellow seems to come out when the favorites need it. As they say, its all about giving the fans what they want. :rolleyes:

Winston Wolfe

02-19-06, 10:12 PM

Ahhh, "The Call"? Wonder who gets it today? Bet it ain't the Knaus car!

Would you like some ketchup with that slice of crow pie ? ;)

RacinM3

02-20-06, 04:04 PM

If neckar were fixed would they really allow Jimmy Johnson to win after all the crap his crew cheif went through this week?

I don't think anybody's ever said every race is fixed, just a few prime opportunity races that serve to raise the level of awareness of the series. Like Petty in front of Reagan, or Earnhardt Jr. so soon after the death of Sr.

NismoZ

02-20-06, 04:45 PM

WW-Can you believe THAT! Sometimes I just amaze myself. :gomer: Of course this may have been a call-debunking conspiracy whereby the callER and the callEE plotted this whole thing WEEKS ago to include the original infraction, the banishment and the final result! Why, you ask? To disprove all those nasty rumors about "The Call" of course! :D So, how'd the race actually look? Any wrecks? :rolleyes: Everyone on their best behavior? Did Fat Tony heed his own warning?

manic mechanic

02-21-06, 03:17 AM

NASCAR fans understand that if Jeff Gordon isn't winning, just wait...he will, so the marketing machine interprets their patience as a sign of a star-proof sport, or they are clever enough to know they should push that angle to the casual fan. If they can convince the casual fan that it's not about the drivers, they just succeeded in growing ensuring the health of the series when Gordon, JR etc retires.

r2c, have you ever been at a race when "Cheffy God'n" crashes out or blows up? you will see a mass exodus of "fans" head for the exits...I know, I've seen it.

At least the Jr. fans hang out and cheer for their boy even when he's not doing well.

NASCAR's success has been propagated by the "bandwagon" fan over the last 10-15 years and the marketing execs know it, so they will keep hyping the fact that the guy is a 4 time series champ and "hungry for a fifth cup" to insure that the rainbow-clad legions will show up/tune in for his next outing.

Besides that, look at the surface area on the side of a "cab"...One quarter panel has more room for sponsor decals than an entire ChampCar.

Mom uses Tide and Clorox, Dad drinks Bud, Miller Lite or Coors Light.

Besides that, they have trouble following ChampCar...I overheard people at Vegas say that "the cars are too fast...I can't tell who's who". :rofl:

It appears as though when the brain slows down, NASCAR fits right in!

manic

Sean O'Gorman

02-21-06, 07:03 AM

r2c, have you ever been at a race when "Cheffy God'n" crashes out or blows up? you will see a mass exodus of "fans" head for the exits...I know, I've seen it.

At least the Jr. fans hang out and cheer for their boy even when he's not doing well.

I think you have it the other way around. From what I was told (I haven't been to a Cup race since '99), the Earnhardt Jr. fans leave when he drops out. I never believed this until a former coworker of mine did it at Michigan like 40 laps in becacuse she wanted to beat the traffic if Little E wasn't racing.

racer2c

02-21-06, 09:44 AM

r2c, have you ever been at a race when "Cheffy God'n" crashes out or blows up? you will see a mass exodus of "fans" head for the exits...I know, I've seen it.

At least the Jr. fans hang out and cheer for their boy even when he's not doing well.

NASCAR's success has been propagated by the "bandwagon" fan over the last 10-15 years and the marketing execs know it, so they will keep hyping the fact that the guy is a 4 time series champ and "hungry for a fifth cup" to insure that the rainbow-clad legions will show up/tune in for his next outing.

Besides that, look at the surface area on the side of a "cab"...One quarter panel has more room for sponsor decals than an entire ChampCar.

Mom uses Tide and Clorox, Dad drinks Bud, Miller Lite or Coors Light.

Besides that, they have trouble following ChampCar...I overheard people at Vegas say that "the cars are too fast...I can't tell who's who". :rofl:

It appears as though when the brain slows down, NASCAR fits right in!

manic

And yet after Gordon or JR drops out...the Bud hat is still on the head, the #8 decal is still in the window and phones are ringing off the hook for tickets to the next race. Why? Because of the "side by side" action? Hell no, it's because they "just know" their driver is "gonna take the checkert". NASCAR has spent decades promoting and marketing their drivers. Now NASCAR is trying to say it's big becuase of the racing. BS. Does any fan really care how close the finish is if it's their driver who crosses the line first? No.

Sean O'Gorman

02-21-06, 01:09 PM

Stu

02-21-06, 01:14 PM

example:

my former boss.

die hard rusty wallace fan. die hard ford truck driver.

rusty goes to dodge, he still watches NASCAR, but he isnt a Rusty fan anymore. he becomes a fan of the Roush guys, especially Biffle.

He didn't leave the sport because Rusty abandoned Ford, he just switched Drivers within the sport.

racer2c

02-21-06, 03:00 PM

Bull. Drivers come and go but NASCAR's popularity has stayed the same. What does it say when you look at other racing series and when a Mexican or Brazilian driver disappears, so does a noticable portion of the fanbase?

Yeah, ok, NASCAR's not about the drivers. Sure. Ok. Whatever you say.
Let me break it down in simple words for you. Petty retires...Earnhardt, Allison, Kulwicki are there...after them Gordon, Jr, Stewert. NASCAR is in the business of making stars.

Take JR, Gordon, Sterwart and the other big names out of the series and for the next race...

Kasey Kahne
Robby Gordon
Kevin Harvick
Matt Kenseth
Martin Truex
Terry Labonte
Michael Waltrip

Kirk Shelmerdine
Brent Sherman
Dave Blaney
Kyle Busch
Mike Wallace
Kevin Lepage

Travis Kvapil
David Stremme
Reed Sorenson
Denny Hamlin
Greg Biffle

yeah, these guys will keep those 175K seats full! :gomer:

trish

02-21-06, 03:04 PM

You don't consider Kenseth a big name? He's a past champion. Harvick is a big name too. Everybody loves (or hates) Happy! :D

pchall

02-21-06, 03:25 PM

He didn't leave the sport because Rusty abandoned Ford, he just switched Drivers within the sport.

Could there be a NASCAR fan who was interested in every car and every driver in the series? Or is that my 60s racing sensibility popping out again?

Stu

02-21-06, 04:30 PM

Yeah, ok, NASCAR's not about the drivers....

yeah, these guys will keep those 175K seats full! :gomer:

so are you saying if Gordon, Stewart, and Earnhardt Jr started in the IRL instead of NASCAR, that the IRL would be where NASCAR is today?

BS.

The Drivers do not make NASCAR popular, its because of NASCAR that they are. If they were not there, someone else would be in their place.

racer2c

02-21-06, 08:54 PM

so are you saying if Gordon, Stewart, and Earnhardt Jr started in the IRL instead of NASCAR, that the IRL would be where NASCAR is today?

BS.

The Drivers do not make NASCAR popular, its because of NASCAR that they are. If they were not there, someone else would be in their place.

BS. It wasn't the side by side racing that made NASCAR what it is today it was Petty, Pearson, Earnhardt, Allison etc, etc.

Ever see a NASCAR race from the 60's 70's or 80's?

I have.