Any Electricians Here?

[CARTNUT]

Hey Everybody,

The 'NUTs are working on a 500 sq.ft. room addition as owner/builders and although I can handle just about all of the electrical in the walls and ceiling, Mrs. 'NUT just has to have 2 receptacles in the floor! :shakehead Short of hiring an electrician for this small job, does anyone here have any experience with this? Specifically, we want a single run from an adjacent wall source with 2 separate outlets about 7ft. apart in the middle of the floor. This is going to be a concrete slab floor. Basiscally what I'm looking for is a diagram and how to assemble this circuit (what kind of conduit, boxes, etc., and how they lay in the concrete from the wall) according to California/National Electrical Code. If anyone can help, it would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks,
'NUT :gomer:

[cart7]

How is the wood floor/sub flooring laid out? Or is there a subflooring?

[chop456]

How is the wood floor/sub flooring laid out? Or is there a subflooring?


This is going to be a concrete slab floor.

Personally, I'd tell her it's unsafe to do it that way. It's always worked for me when something was unnecessarily complicated. :D

[mapguy]

2 outlets in the concrete subfloor? I don't know what the codes are in California but I would avoid doing it. Much for the same reason not to put duct work in concrete. But if you must do it...

Use the grey conduit. You can get it at any Lowe's or Home Depot. When I worked at Lowe's they had outlets that were specifically designed to be installed in the floor. But they were single outlets. For the first outlet in the circuit get a 20 amp GFCI and a normal 15 amp outlet for the second one. The first GFCI outlet will protect the second one. Also, for this circuit I would use a Arc Fault breaker as opposed to a standard one. Use this especially if the addition is further away from the panel as it will protect the circuit from arcing. I would also use 12-2 with ground. You probably only need 14-2 but in electrical work, overkill is good. Also you will need two boxes, preferably metal "old work" boxes, but you can use plastic. It really all depends on what the codes are. Also needed will be connectors from the conduit to the boxes and pvc couplings, elbows, pvc cement etc... Assemble it first before pouring the cement. You will also have to make sure that the face of the boxes will be level with the concrete. Also do not use the pvc cement at first, make sure all the conduit fit first.

Most importantly check the codes. City codes supersede county codes, county supersede state and state supersedes the NEC.

In closing. IMHO I would not do it in the flooring. It is easier to do it through the walls.

[rosawendel]

i wouldn't use plastic boxes in a concrete floor. when you pour the concrete around the box, the pressure can deform the plastic. if the box gets deformed screw holes may not line up, and if they don't you'll never get the outlets in or the cap on.

Assuming that the residential code even allows for floor boxes, i would get the brass ones with hinged outlet covers. they won't deform under a concrete load, and the screw threads have more of a "bite" then the plastic ones do. i doubt they'll have them off the rack at home depot, but you should be able toget them at any electrical supply house.

[nrc]

Be sure to use boxes intended to be used in concrete. There are floor boxes that come with levelling adjustment screws and temporary covers to keep concrete out during the pouring.

[Dave99]

Larry, I have done a similar project and can only offer advice for what worked for me so double check anything I've typed with the inspector...

You should be ok running 12 or 14 gauge romex from your wall location to your first floor location and then pigtail over to your second floor location. Of course, cover the wiring with a few inches of dirt so as not to imbed it when pouring the concrete.

What I would do if I were you though is to create two solid wooden blocks measuring 2-1/4" wide x 4" long x 6" high to represent the outlet boxes. Mark each side of both blocks at 3-1/2" high (assuming your slab is 3-1/2") with a red Sharpie™ and place them in their desired locations. When the concrete is poured, the marks on the sides of the blocks can be used by the finishers for elevation reference.

Using wood blocks will allow the concrete to cure naturally and, once removed, will allow access to the dirt underneath for you to retrieve your pre-layed wiring.

Then all you have to do is clamp the wiring to the boxes (leaving about 6" of romex coiled up inside for the receptacles) and then install the boxes to the floor.

I think.

Good luck. If I don't see you at L.B. I'll know why! :D

Do yourself a favor though... pre-install all your pieces before pouring the concrete and check for power. :gomer:

[RacinM3]

We are going through a MAJOR remodel on a house we just bought. We did this exact same thing; two floor outlets. Our family room is pretty big and the furniture will be centrally-located, and we'll have wood floors, so floor outlets were a requirement. It most certainly is allowable in CA, as ours has just been inspected and signed off by the city's inspector. Since ours is a remodel, we had to sawcut the floor for the install.

I'll take a few shots tomorrow when I run by the house to pick up the mail, and post here.

[CARTNUT]

WOW! Thanks for all the help! RacinM3 I'm looking forward to the photos.

I know there are special boxes for concrete floors but what I am most concerned with is the type of conduit and box connections needed for this application.

But we're gettin' closer!

Thanks, 'NUT :gomer:

and Dave you Will see me at LB even if you did just jinx me and I get electrocuted!

[CART License]

Hey Larry,

My cousin is a licensed electrician, I would be happy to call in a favor and have him stop by and lend you his professional advice…Just say the word….HI Jer

Jamie

[CART License]

A sample of his work, just finished enclosing the garage 380 sf of billiard room with 20 ceiling lights.
http://www.rentlv.com/images/25lights.jpg

[CARTNUT]

Hey Larry,

My cousin is a licensed electrician, I would be happy to call in a favor and have him stop by and lend you his professional advice…Just say the word….HI Jer

Jamie

Jamie! NICE ROOM!!! Jer says "HI!" & wants to know when we can come and "BREAK" it in. (Just put Cujo in the backyard.) ;)

Thanks for the offer with your cousin, but I actually found the answer this morning online with my bro's help. Carlon Floor Box Systems (http://www.lamson-sessions.com/OurBusinesses.html) has the setup available thru Home Depot and Lowes. Pretty slick and reasonably priced too. Very Cool.

Now I just gotta git 'er done!

See ya at LB! Hey, PM me; Jer wants to know where you are sitting for the race.

'NUT :gomer:

P.S. Thanks to everyone else for your input!!! Much appreciated!

http://www.carlon.com/images/ContentPics/E971FBAssembly.jpg

[Dave99]

Larry, what type of flooring will be installed over the slab? Tile, hardwood, carpet?

[CARTNUT]

Larry, what type of flooring will be installed over the slab? Tile, hardwood, carpet?

Dave, we were thinking about hardwood and, in fact, saw a thing on Mesquite Hardwood Floors (http://www.mhmdesigns.net/flooring%20pictures.htm) which look really cool. But we might end up just having the concrete stained and sealed if the budget dries up. Why do you ask? :confused:

[Mr. Toad]

A sample of his work, just finished enclosing the garage 380 sf of billiard room with 20 ceiling lights.
http://www.rentlv.com/images/25lights.jpg

We-e-e-ll doggies! What's a "bil-yerd" room without one of these on the wall.
http://www.nantasyfantasy.com/Animals/rhinoheadedt.jpg

And don't forget the pot passers.

[Dave99]

Dave, why do you ask? :confused:
I's just wondering how much pre-planning you'll have to do (if any) before assembling and installing the two cans and pouring concrete around it. Each flooring type (tile+thinset, wood+underlay, carpet+pad) have different heights.

Hypothetically, if the underside of the brass plate sits directly on the hardwood floor, the top of the grey can might have to be 7/8" above your slab. Or 3/8" above for tile. Or as much as 1-1/2" above for carpeting.

Unless the unit is adjustable. Then never mind. :o

http://www.carlon.com/images/ContentPics/E971FBAssembly.jpg

[Dave99]

Jaime, is that your garage conversion you were telling me you wanted to have done? :thumbup:

If so, when's your next party??? :D

[CARTNUT]

I's just wondering how much pre-planning you'll have to do (if any) before assembling and installing the two cans and pouring concrete around it. Each flooring type (tile+thinset, wood+underlay, carpet+pad) have different heights.

Hypothetically, if the underside of the brass plate sits directly on the hardwood floor, the top of the grey can might have to be 7/8" above your slab. Or 3/8" above for tile. Or as much as 1-1/2" above for carpeting.

Unless the unit is adjustable. Then never mind. :o

http://www.carlon.com/images/ContentPics/E971FBAssembly.jpg

Dave, It looks foolproof; Even I could do it. The units end up sticking out of concrete (or subfloor) a couple of inches and are then trimmed to the finished floor height. Then there is an adjustable leveling brass or plastic watertight cover assembly that goes on top of that. Pretty slick, huh? If you want to make the hike out to MoVal sometime next month and watch/help me do it, let me know. I'll buy lunch!

Lar :gomer: